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I think that Michael Voris is beginning to cross a dangerous line. Deflecting all the confusing things Pope Francis has said and even taking a potshot at EWTN after highlighting the issue isn't going to solve the problem, even on a minor scale. His point about the bishops letting things circulate that shouldn't be circulated is a valid point, of course, but how much more does that apply to the Bishop of Rome?

So we are to:

1. Publicly resist our Bishops when they command things which are against the faith....but avoid the SSPX because they are not in communion with our local Bishops. 
2. Condemn Pastors in the Church who rebel against the faith...but ignore the rebellion against the faith of the primary Pastor of the Church, since he can't really do anything anyways.

Crystal clear.
I don't understand or accept the false dichotomy that Voris is propounding here. As usual, the situation is both/and. We have a bad pope and many bad bishops.
On the bright side his tone is better than the old « you're not St. Catherine of Siena, so shut up !! »

But still, downplaying the pope's role is still unrealistic. The popes can sack bishops (e.g., +Livieres) or put bishops in position of powerlessness, they can make bishops and put them in positions of power, they can make Cardinals. And now we know they can concoct a whole new rite out of the blue and inflict the Church with this prot influenced fancy. They can also liberate the traditional rites (i.e., the Catholic rites), and even if there's opposition things are much better than before because of this. Turns out, also, that popes can seemingly turn the moral order upside down with exhortations and new legislations.

At the end of the day its more than just some « off the cuff » things the pope says. This is hardly the problem for educated Catholics.

And no, the Pope is not an easy target.
I think Michael Voris made a very good point. The Pope is not omnipotent nor omniscient, he can't just fix the problems in the Church with a wave of his hand. The crisis in the Church is due largely to bad Bishops, not bad Popes.
(07-10-2016, 01:45 PM)Confiteor Deo Wrote: [ -> ]I think Michael Voris made a very good point. The Pope is not omnipotent nor omniscient, he can't just fix the problems in the Church with a wave of his hand. The crisis in the Church is due largely to bad Bishops, not bad Popes.
I'd say both. Many bishops just go with the flow. They follow the lead of the Pope in charge. Others are fully orthodox, others are fully liberal. Having a pope who is truly orthodox would put that middle group more in line and would make a huge difference. There have always been crappy bishops, but the pope sets the tone.
(07-10-2016, 04:27 PM)GangGreen Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-10-2016, 01:45 PM)Confiteor Deo Wrote: [ -> ]I think Michael Voris made a very good point. The Pope is not omnipotent nor omniscient, he can't just fix the problems in the Church with a wave of his hand. The crisis in the Church is due largely to bad Bishops, not bad Popes.
I'd say both. Many bishops just go with the flow. They follow the lead of the Pope in charge. Others are fully orthodox, others are fully liberal. Having a pope who is truly orthodox would put that middle group more in line and would make a huge difference. There have always been crappy bishops, but the pope sets the tone.
And the Pope appoints bishops to certain offices. ie, Pope Francis recently appointed Archbishop Cupich of Chicago to the Congregation for Bishops. He has the authority to surround himself with staunchly orthodox prelates or Cardinal Kaspers.

Mr. Voris said something like "the Pope couldn't just fire all these Bishops" -- but why couldn't he? He could get a secret group together, have them tour key population centers to find replacements for the bad Bishops who are in office now, then engage in some mass firings -- say 20 or 30 in one day to put the fear of God into these men.

He could appeal straight to the people as well, going on the balcony and laying it on us with re. to Catholic teaching. He could name Bishops by name as well, straight to the people.

He could, as In His Love said, put orthodox Bishops and Cardinals into key positions and committees and such.

There is just no way that the Pope is as helpless as Mr. Voris is making him out to be, not when he has the mic and can make his will known by walking to a balcony and using it.
The Pope certainly could get rid of bishops and find replacements,  but I don't think many would go along with his wishes, not to mention the whole thing would blow up as a PR nightmare with headlines like "Return of the Inquistion" and "Roman Church becomes a Dictatorship" or something like that.

Remember when Benedict XVI visited Germany and I think not one of the bishops shook his hand? That video is still out there and it's painful to watch, you could see Ratzinger as simply humiliated and deflated.  The Pope technically has the right and the authority to clean up the Church,but authority and power mean absolutely nothing when he is not able to wield it.  The era of popes ruling by threat of interdict, excommunication and authoritarianism is long over at least for now. 

At least as far as this Pope goes I don't think he wants things different than they are.  He,like every pope since Paul VI, is irrevocably committed to Vatican II and the new status quo. There is no turning back.  Any fixing is going to come from centuries of "brick by brick" incremental rebuilding,  isolated intentional communities and house churches, disobedience out of necessity a la SSPX and laity that keep the faith  irregardless of the ineptitude of careerist bishops and popes.

(07-10-2016, 04:27 PM)GangGreen Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-10-2016, 01:45 PM)Confiteor Deo Wrote: [ -> ]I think Michael Voris made a very good point. The Pope is not omnipotent nor omniscient, he can't just fix the problems in the Church with a wave of his hand. The crisis in the Church is due largely to bad Bishops, not bad Popes.
I'd say both. Many bishops just go with the flow. They follow the lead of the Pope in charge. Others are fully orthodox, others are fully liberal. Having a pope who is truly orthodox would put that middle group more in line and would make a huge difference. There have always been crappy bishops, but the pope sets the tone.

The Pope is completely orthodox. I wouldn't say he's traditional, but he's orthodox.
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