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I checked some major news sources an hour or so ago.

That included Breitbart, the BBC, ABC News, CBS NEWS, London Daily Mail and even Interfax from Russia.

Not a word or a peep from them on this.

Not even the blasted New York Times said anything about it last time I checked.

So I wouldn't get my hopes up yet.

Personal opinion: I'd rather see the SSPX be an Apostolic Administration rather than a Personal Prelature like the FSSP. If memory serves, an Administration has more independence of action than a Prelature. So the Society should hold out for that.
How does one resist VII yet accept something that was invented in VII? Sounds odd.
(07-30-2016, 09:17 AM)GangGreen Wrote: [ -> ]How does one resist VII yet accept something that was invented in VII? Sounds odd.
For my part, I don't know.  All I myself know is that those trad apostolates which have nothing to do with The Resistance are in fact resisting V2 just as much with their actions as any other group ignoring V2, including SSPX, The Resistance, and sedevacantists.  And the salient point is that Rome has to know this.  It's a game that's being played.  And in addition to Rome, there are plenty of bishops who also know that the trad groups in their regions have never so much as mentioned "The Council" (as if there was only one, by the way) in any of their published literature, or from the pulpit, or in their formal catechesis -- such as instructing in Traditional Holy Communion, Confirmation, Baptism, Matrimony, etc.  We can say it's hypocritical on the part of trad groups to "accept" something that they are actually not just resisting but rejecting, but on the part of the Conciliar hierarchy It's quite hypocritical to demand that any group make an empty promise to "accept" something that is then ignored wholesale and is not enforced whatsoever.  Who is kidding whom?

It's all about formally demanding...... and then winking.  I have to wonder sometimes if the hierarchy actually even believes themselves, or are they themselves acknowledging, by such lack of enforcement, that the trad societies are right?
(07-30-2016, 09:55 AM)Miriam_M Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-30-2016, 09:17 AM)GangGreen Wrote: [ -> ]How does one resist VII yet accept something that was invented in VII? Sounds odd.
For my part, I don't know.  All I myself know is that those trad apostolates which have nothing to do with The Resistance are in fact resisting V2 just as much with their actions as any other group ignoring V2, including SSPX, The Resistance, and sedevacantists.  And the salient point is that Rome has to know this.  It's a game that's being played.  And in addition to Rome, there are plenty of bishops who also know that the trad groups in their regions have never so much as mentioned "The Council" (as if there was only one, by the way) in any of their published literature, or from the pulpit, or in their formal catechesis -- such as instructing in Traditional Holy Communion, Confirmation, Baptism, Matrimony, etc.  We can say it's hypocritical on the part of trad groups to "accept" something that they are actually not just resisting but rejecting, but on the part of the Conciliar hierarchy It's quite hypocritical to demand that any group make an empty promise to "accept" something that is then ignored wholesale and is not enforced whatsoever.  Who is kidding whom?

It's all about formally demanding...... and then winking.  I have to wonder sometimes if the hierarchy actually even believes themselves, or are they themselves acknowledging, by such lack of enforcement, that the trad societies are right?

Who are "the Resistance"? I'm not familiar with that term applied to any group. (for curiousity's sake)
(07-30-2016, 10:30 AM)PrairieMom Wrote: [ -> ]Who are "the Resistance"? I'm not familiar with that term applied to any group. (for curiousity's sake)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSPX_Resistance

Quote: The SSPX Resistance is a loosely organized group of Traditionalist Catholics that grew out of the concern that the dialogue between the Society of St. Pius X and the Holy See was leading the Society of St. Pius X to accept the Second Vatican Council as a condition of the Society's recognition by Rome. The SSPX Resistance has continued to celebrate the Tridentine Mass and the traditional form of the Sacraments throughout the world, though independent of the institutional Catholic Church and the Society of St. Pius X. They see themselves as holding true to the founding principles of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, opposing any drift towards liberalism and modernism perceived within the Society.

In general, they are hard line about any accord with Rome -- unless and until Rome herself renounces the errors of V2 and cleans house with respect to hierarchy still holding incongruous beliefs about Roman Catholicism.

Members of The Resistance make a point of removing themselves from any "taint" of diocesan involvement, which in some cases would include refusing to borrow diocesan churches for liturgies, etc.  IOW, they're pretty much separatists in the way they operate.  My understanding is that The Resistance considers the mainstream SSPX (+Fellay and Company) to be "sell-outs" to the Conciliar Sect.

I am not a Society person myself, but I have friends who are.  (They're SSPX, not Resistance.)  SSPX is not super-local to me, and I have, in my opinion, a superior trad alternative.  I've just had to do some reading on the issue myself.
(07-30-2016, 10:39 AM)Miriam_M Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-30-2016, 10:30 AM)PrairieMom Wrote: [ -> ]Who are "the Resistance"? I'm not familiar with that term applied to any group. (for curiousity's sake)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSPX_Resistance

Quote: The SSPX Resistance is a loosely organized group of Traditionalist Catholics that grew out of the concern that the dialogue between the Society of St. Pius X and the Holy See was leading the Society of St. Pius X to accept the Second Vatican Council as a condition of the Society's recognition by Rome. The SSPX Resistance has continued to celebrate the Tridentine Mass and the traditional form of the Sacraments throughout the world, though independent of the institutional Catholic Church and the Society of St. Pius X. They see themselves as holding true to the founding principles of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, opposing any drift towards liberalism and modernism perceived within the Society.

In general, they are hard line about any accord with Rome -- unless and until Rome herself renounces the errors of V2 and cleans house with respect to hierarchy still holding incongruous beliefs about Roman Catholicism.

Members of The Resistance make a point of removing themselves from any "taint" of diocesan involvement, which in some cases would include refusing to borrow diocesan churches for liturgies, etc.  IOW, they're pretty much separatists in the way they operate.  My understanding is that The Resistance considers the mainstream SSPX (+Fellay and Company) to be "sell-outs" to the Conciliar Sect.

I am not a Society person myself, but I have friends who are.  (They're SSPX, not Resistance.)  SSPX is not super-local to me, and I have, in my opinion, a superior trad alternative.  I've just had to do some reading on the issue myself.

Thank-you! That's connected a whole lotta dots for me!
(07-30-2016, 01:31 AM)HailGilbert Wrote: [ -> ]Personal opinion: I'd rather see the SSPX be an Apostolic Administration rather than a Personal Prelature like the FSSP. If memory serves, an Administration has more independence of action than a Prelature. So the Society should hold out for that.

A Prelature is a highly undefined and fairly new canonical situation. There is only one Prelature.

An Apostolic Administratior is much older and historically was a proto-diocese. The use of it for in Campos was a unique and novel modification, and there's no canon law to back it up.

In my mind, the Prelature is very flexible, since it relies mostly on the statues of the Prelature to define it and that's enshrined in canon law. The Personal Apostolic Administration is so novel an idea it could be easily modified later to undermine the working of the Administration, since it is not defined or protected by standing canon law.

The Prelature guarantees a prelate as its head (a bishop), whereas an Ordinariate or Personal Apostolic Administration only guarantees an Ordinary or Adminstrator with Ordinary powers (jurisdiction), which could be a simple priest. That's a difficulty for future Ordinations.

In Campos, for instance, there is no guarantee that Bishop Rifan's successor would be a bishop, and as a result they would have to rely like the FSSP or ICK on bishops to be provided for them.
(07-29-2016, 06:11 PM)Steven Wrote: [ -> ]I just saw this article: SSPX Will Get Personal Prelature. (Fr. Z has it too.)

Quote:C & W: Why is a Personal Prelature appropriate for the SSPX?

Pozzo: That seems to be the appropriate canonical form. Monsignor Fellay has accepted the proposal, even if in the coming months details remain to be clarified. Only Opus Dei currently enjoys this canonical structure, which is a big vote of confidence for the SSPX. It is clear that the solution of the canonical form requires the solution of the doctrinal questions.

My favourite quote of the article is this, which I think is applicable to all of our Latin Mass communities: "The Fraternity does not, as is often claimed, only value the traditional liturgy, but also has substantive work." -Msgr. Pozzo

This really isn't news.

It was long ago established and publicized that the structure that the Holy See envisiged for the SSPX was a Personal Prelature.

That means that this was not recently decided and does not necessarily (or even probably) reflect any recent developments, and thus even less some imminent "regularization".

It is probably a PR response to the recent press releases from Bishop Fellay in which he said that the Society's first goal was not canonical status, but the continued formation of holy priests; and in which he explicitly said that the errors which fuel the crisis go all the way to the Pope.

That produced backlash in which it was speculated that the SSPX was rejecting any "deal", whereas a literal reading did not support that. It is possible that Msgr. Pozzo (who is charged with doing exactly this kind of PR work), gave this information to help keep the story alive and correct the erroneous speculations.

This is a typical reaction, however. So many people hang on every word from the mount of the press on the SSPX. Whatever happens, nothing will change overnight. The history of the Church shows that many times over.
If such a thing were to happen, what about the FSSP?  Those guys have been promised a Bishop, that NEVER HAPPENED.  Would the Holy Father automatically include the FSSP priests as a part of the prelature since both the SSPX and the FSSP have common origins?  Or would the FSSP be left out to dry without a Bishop.  Wow.....it would indicate be "disobedient" to get a better deal, wouldn't it?


Novus Ordo watch is calling it a done deal but if memory serves isn't Fellay required to put this all to a vote?

"Bp. Fellay has Accepted Personal Prelature Proposal for SSPX, Details being Worked Out


The head of the Vatican’s so-called Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, “Archbishop” Guido Pozzo, has revealed in an interview with the German Christ & Welt that Bp. Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), has agreed to canonical regularization under a personal prelature solution, although details are still being worked out. Pozzo added that this regularization will not take place until the remaining doctrinal issues are resolved, while at the same time clarifying that these issues do not include such “non-essential” and “pastoral” topics as ecumenism, interreligious dialogue, religious liberty, and the relationship between the Church and the modern world.
In plain English: The deal is done, they’re just putting the finishing touches on the wrapping to make it look as presentable as possible."
http://www.novusordowatch.org/wire/sspx-...lature.htm

C.
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