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Full Version: Did Bishop Fellay get outvoted on reconciliation with Rome?
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First, I'd like to say that this is hearsay and from second-hand sources, so I can't promise the veracity of these accounts, but they come from trusted sources, so I can't ignore them, either.

I've heard that the deal with Rome was put to a vote within the SSPX, i.e. amongst its priests.  Bishop Fellay and Fr. Schmidberger were for the deal; however, they got outvoted by the rank and file.  So now the whole thing is up in the air, and no one knows what's going to happen.  Bishop Fellay thinks this is the best deal that the SSPX is going to get, while the dissenting priests are afraid of Pope Francis's modernist views and want to wait for a more traditional pope.  So Bishop Fellay is now between a rock and a hard place.  If he agrees to the deal, he risks a good part of the SSPX leaving and perhaps joining the Resistance or starting their own group; if he does not agree to the deal, he risks those who want the deal leaving on their own to reconcile with Rome, like the FSSP did.  Another reason why Bishop Fellay wants the deal is because the other bishop in the SSPX is in poor health, and he wants Rome to acquiesce to appointing another bishop and successor, which is not possible without reconciliation.

So I honestly don't know what's going to happen.  Has anyone else heard anything to this effect?  Again, this is hearsay and from second-hand sources, so I can't attest to the veracity of this information.
(08-04-2016, 08:25 AM)AllSeasons Wrote: [ -> ]First, I'd like to say that this is hearsay and from second-hand sources, so I can't promise the veracity of these accounts, but they come from trusted sources, so I can't ignore them, either.

I've heard that the deal with Rome was put to a vote within the SSPX, i.e. amongst its priests.  Bishop Fellay and Fr. Schmidberger were for the deal; however, they got outvoted by the rank and file.  So now the whole thing is up in the air, and no one knows what's going to happen.  Bishop Fellay thinks this is the best deal that the SSPX is going to get, while the dissenting priests are afraid of Pope Francis's modernist views and want to wait for a more traditional pope.  So Bishop Fellay is now between a rock and a hard place.  If he agrees to the deal, he risks a good part of the SSPX leaving and perhaps joining the Resistance or starting their own group; if he does not agree to the deal, he risks those who want the deal leaving on their own to reconcile with Rome, like the FSSP did.  Another reason why Bishop Fellay wants the deal is because the other bishop in the SSPX is in poor health, and he wants Rome to acquiesce to appointing another bishop and successor, which is not possible without reconciliation.

So I honestly don't know what's going to happen.  Has anyone else heard anything to this effect?  Again, this is hearsay and from second-hand sources, so I can't attest to the veracity of this information.

I have no sources on this, so I can only comment on what you have written. 

Firstly, we have no idea how long Pope Francis's pontificate will be.  He could be pope for only a short while longer... or several more years.  If His Excellency thinks that this deal is as good as it's going to get - he may be right.  He has to take into account that our next pope may have no desire to deal with SSPX at all.  Then what?  Yes, the next pope or the one after may be more traditional, but then again, they may not be.  To not take these possibilities into consideration would be short-sighted at best and reckless at worst. 

Secondly, you mentioned that the deal was/could be rejected by the rank and file.  What?  Since when is any bishop beholden to his priests?  They should be obedient to him, not the other way around.  Am I right?  I know precious little about the SSPX, but I am quite sympathetic to them and want to see a reconciliation.  How can the priests tell their bishop what to do, unless there's some special provision in their order that allows for that?  I'm very confused on the whole thing.

If Bishop Fellay is for the deal, and he thinks that it's the best one they will get, he should take it.  I don't think the SSPX can do any more than they already have continuing to be on the outside looking in.  Why not take a seat at the table and bring their voice to the Vatican?  Yes, some priests will leave; but is that number really greater than the number that would stay?

If taking the deal is the only way to get another VALID bishop, what choice do they have?  I say take they should take deal and then fight their battles from the inside.

A pedantic point: as I understand it, the SSPX priests are not beholden to Bishop Fellay as "their bishop." The SSPX bishops do not have jurisdictional authority. The priests have an obedience to the superior general, who at this time happens to be Bishop Fellay, but in the past was a priest. The superior general is elected to a term of years.

Also taking "a deal" is not the only way to get a valid bishop. The bishops could consecrate another valid bishop today, if they wished. But such a consecration would be illicit.

Presumably, Bishop Fellay would like to avoid another purported excommunication for such a consecration, if possible, considering the difficulties that arose last time. As for the other SSPX bishops, they may or may not share that concern. Based on their public statements, they certainly do not seem to.

Take a deal and fight from inside? I don't necessarily agree. Would the SSPX have the number of priests, religious, and laity that it has if they were inside? I doubt it. Their appeal is that they are not part of the New Church overtly.  It just doesn't seem like people who actually go to Society chapels care for a deal; whereas people who refuse to go for whatever reason really like the idea.
waiting for a traditional pope....lol

the second coming will happen before that ever happens again.
(08-04-2016, 11:38 AM)Zea mays Wrote: [ -> ]waiting for a traditional pope....lol

the second coming will happen before that ever happens again.

Seeing that we have no idea when the second coming happens, let's hope not .
I think Pope Francis is more a concern to the rank and file SSPX priests than Bishop Williamson and the breakaway group the SSPX of the Strict Observance LOL
(08-04-2016, 10:15 AM)ermy_law Wrote: [ -> ]A pedantic point: as I understand it, the SSPX priests are not beholden to Bishop Fellay as "their bishop." The SSPX bishops do not have jurisdictional authority. The priests have an obedience to the superior general, who at this time happens to be Bishop Fellay, but in the past was a priest. The superior general is elected to a term of years.

Also taking "a deal" is not the only way to get a valid bishop. The bishops could consecrate another valid bishop today, if they wished. But such a consecration would be illicit.

Presumably, Bishop Fellay would like to avoid another purported excommunication for such a consecration, if possible, considering the difficulties that arose last time. As for the other SSPX bishops, they may or may not share that concern. Based on their public statements, they certainly do not seem to.

Take a deal and fight from inside? I don't necessarily agree. Would the SSPX have the number of priests, religious, and laity that it has if they were inside? I doubt it. Their appeal is that they are not part of the New Church overtly.  It just doesn't seem like people who actually go to Society chapels care for a deal; whereas people who refuse to go for whatever reason really like the idea.

The fly in the ointment here for Bp. Fellay is that he is not free to accept a deal and impose it on the Society. At the general chapter of the SSPX in 2012 it was resolved that no deal could be reached with Rome without a vote of the general chapter: "We have determined and approved the necessary conditions for an eventual canonical normalization. We have decided that, in that case, an extraordinary Chapter with deliberative vote will be convened beforehand." So, IF a vote took place Bp. Fellay is obliged to abide by it.

http://www.dici.org/en/news/society-of-s...statement/

C.
Thank you for pointing that out. I was not aware of it.
(08-05-2016, 11:26 PM)ermy_law Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for pointing that out. I was not aware of it.

You're welcome. It seems to show there is a certain mistrust of Fellay that was engendered during the "almost agreement" of 2012 and now his hands are tied. And while Abp. Pozzo speaks of just having to work out details now, the SSPX remain mute on those news reports. Could they really have voted on something and kept it secret? Seems unlikely to me, given the leaks that happened in the past.

C.
All good points.

The reassurance that I have comes from the fact that there are 600 SSPX priests whom I know love the Church as much or more than I do. And they have not fled the SSPX or gone public with rumors or other nonsense. That being the case, I have faith that Bp. Fellay or whomever will do the right thing. And they know what the "right thing" is better than people spreading rumors on the internet since they have all the information, being as they are party to the discussions.