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I debated about whether to post this in "Catholicism" or other religions but I decided to post it here because I see more and more of this in the Catholic church.

I have gotten into trouble for discussing topics like abortion, divorce, and homosexuality on other forums.  The topic that ultimately got me into the most trouble was divorce and remarriage. 

I got a bit obsessed with the topic of divorce and remarriage when I got older because it became "personal" to me.  No I didn't get a divorce, but as I got older I found that more and more of the singles my age were divorced -- and people started pushing me to date, and consider, divorcees WITH KIDS... They were sort of trying to help the divorcees and fighting for these "underdogs".  And they did not really want me to date and marry a younger never married woman.  Suddenly I found myself trying to defend myself in terms of my own private personal life.

I dated a number of divorcees with kids and found myself feeling guilty for taking the mothers attention from their kids.  The kids resented me or felt hurt and scared -- and I totally agreed with the kids.  I could not do it. And made me feel guilty too. Plus it seemed that almost all of the Christians and Catholics seemed to have the position that -- despite what Jesus taught -- it was very wrong for a single Christian man to reject a woman because she was divorced and had kids.

I became a fan of "Dr Laura" because she was critical of divorcees dating and remarrying until their children were grown.  And her argument made sense to me.

When I got back involved with the Catholic Church I was further frustrated by Catholics who argued that "divorce" and remarriage was wrong but remarriage after an "annulment" was okay... And as an "older" (Over 39 years old) Catholic I was forbidden from attending "Young Adults" groups -- and I could only socialize in older groups which seemed to be almost exclusively divorcees with kids...

Ultimately I married a Vietnamese woman who was a Buddhist.  I was rebelling to an extent.  But now I have a cute son and a good marriage with a loving wife.  Which is what I was after all along.

Why has religion become so politically correct?  Is it really a positive thing. Whether we are perfect or not (Sin, be promiscuous, get divorced, etc.) shouldn't the church still aspire and preach better? Does it really help anybody?  I believe that I would have made a huge mistake if I had married a divorcee with kids.  Who I married did not have to be some sort of misguided "act of charity".

Is the Pope leading the Catholic Church -- the Catholic people -- in a distructive direction by trying to be "sensitive" to divorcees, and homosexuals?

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"Is the Pope leading the Catholic Church -- the Catholic people -- in a distructive direction by trying to be "sensitive" to divorcees, and homosexuals?"

We should be sensitive to them in the sense that they are people made in the image and likeness of God and they have needs and wants like any other person. But the Pope's definitely leading the Church in a destructive direction, between the confusion of Amoris Laetitia and some of his more recent statements (Catholics and Lutherans being in the same body of Christ/some Lutherans having the true faith of Christ/"It's not right to convince someone of your Faith (!)").
It is odd that he is arguing to Catholics that other religions are also correct.  It sounds like Vatican II.  Political correctness or an odd publicity campaign?

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Who you marry is nobody's business but your own and the person with whom you marry. You don't owe these busybodies any explanation.
If the person you intend to marry has gone to the trouble to get an annulment then you could consider that person as a potential spouse but you are not under any obligation.
If you could conceivably find someone who is younger then more power to you.
Smile Smile Smile
(10-23-2016, 11:04 PM)RichardP Wrote: [ -> ]Why has religion become so politically correct?  Is it really a positive thing. Whether we are perfect or not (Sin, be promiscuous, get divorced, etc.) shouldn't the church still aspire and preach better? Does it really help anybody?  I believe that I would have made a huge mistake if I had married a divorcee with kids.  Who I married did not have to be some sort of misguided "act of charity".

Religion has become so politically correct because our culture's become that way, and, sadly, too many of our leaders prefer being "socially acceptable" than following what Christ's Church has always taught.

Political correctness is most assuredly NOT a postive thing in any way. Empathy, understanding, true charity, mercy -- these are Good. But not political correctness, the idea that there is no sin, the "I'm OK, You're OK" mentality, etc.

(10-23-2016, 11:04 PM)RichardP Wrote: [ -> ]Is the Pope leading the Catholic Church -- the Catholic people -- in a distructive direction by trying to be "sensitive" to divorcees, and homosexuals?

It's not only not at all wrong to be sensitive to divorcees and homosexuals, but we SHOULD be sensitive to them and to everyone else. But being sensitive to someone doesn't mean condoning sin.

That said, homosexuals qua homosexuals are not sinners any more than anyone else. If they ACT on their homosexual desires, then that is sinful. But merely BEING a homosexual --  i.e., having same sex attraction -- is not a sin, so lumping homosexuals in with the divorced (presumably those who initiated divorce)  ain't kosher, in my book. And there are many divorced people who were dumped, who did not initiate divorce, didn't want to get divorced, etc. The point: we should refrain from making rash assumptions about others (e.g.,
"that person is divorced, ergo that person condones divorce" or "that person is a homosexual, ergo that person has homosexual sex and is not chaste") -- and even when we know the details of their stories, it's not to us to judge souls. We can only judge sin, try to refrain from it, and help others to refrain from it in a way that is effective and prudent (see this page for more about that last:  http://www.fisheaters.com/conversionoftheheart.html )

Anyway,  no one is under any "obligation" to date the divorced/annulled, whether they were dumped or initiated their divorces themselves. People should date those they're attracted to and who are good for them -- and those they are good for and who are attracted to them. T'heck with the busy-bodies.
(10-24-2016, 12:30 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-23-2016, 11:04 PM)RichardP Wrote: [ -> ]Why has religion become so politically correct?  Is it really a positive thing. Whether we are perfect or not (Sin, be promiscuous, get divorced, etc.) shouldn't the church still aspire and preach better? Does it really help anybody?  I believe that I would have made a huge mistake if I had married a divorcee with kids.  Who I married did not have to be some sort of misguided "act of charity".

Religion has become so politically correct because our culture's become that way, and, sadly, too many of our leaders prefer being "socially acceptable" than following what Christ's Church has always taught.

Political correctness is most assuredly NOT a postive thing in any way. Empathy, understanding, true charity, mercy -- these are Good. But not political correctness, the idea that there is no sin, the "I'm OK, You're OK" mentality, etc.

(10-23-2016, 11:04 PM)RichardP Wrote: [ -> ]Is the Pope leading the Catholic Church -- the Catholic people -- in a distructive direction by trying to be "sensitive" to divorcees, and homosexuals?

It's not only not at all wrong to be sensitive to divorcees and homosexuals, but we SHOULD be sensitive to them and to everyone else. But being sensitive to someone doesn't mean condoning sin.

That said, homosexuals qua homosexuals are not sinners any more than anyone else. If they ACT on their homosexual desires, then that is sinful. But merely BEING a homosexual --  i.e., having same sex attraction -- is not a sin, so lumping homosexuals in with the divorced (presumably those who initiated divorce)  ain't kosher, in my book. And there are many divorced people who were dumped, who did not initiate divorce, didn't want to get divorced, etc. The point: we should refrain from making rash assumptions about others (e.g.,
"that person is divorced, ergo that person condones divorce" or "that person is a homosexual, ergo that person has homosexual sex and is not chaste") -- and even when we know the details of their stories, it's not to us to judge souls. We can only judge sin, try to refrain from it, and help others to refrain from it in a way that is effective and prudent (see this page for more about that last:  http://www.fisheaters.com/conversionoftheheart.html )

Anyway,  no one is under any "obligation" to date the divorced/annulled, whether they were dumped or initiated their divorces themselves. People should date those they're attracted to and who are good for them -- and those they are good for and who are attracted to them. T'heck with the busy-bodies.
I didn't write this as clearly as I intended. 
My feelings are that the Catholic Church -- as well as other religions -- tends to focus on the issues where they see "underdogs".  The divorcees, the homosexuals, the illegal immigrants, etc. 

The members of the church, I think, sort of become busy bodies about what they're taught. Like stoning a woman over adultery -- or pushing somebody to date, or "at least give a chance" to a divorcee.

I never thought of it much when I was younger.  I didn't particularly care about annulments.  They were not something I thought about.  But "political correctness" within the church weirdly made it a personal issue to me.  It became about personally defending myself.

I am trying to argue that both the protestants, and the Catholics, are to an extent creating the problems that they are fighting.  In this case the negative defensive position towards divorcees that I developed -- and many other Catholics and protestants have as well.

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I suppose I'm a bit exasperated by both the Catholics and the Protestants because the current politically correct "Christian" positions on homosexuality and divorce and remarriage are in clear opposition to the bible and what Jesus Christ taught.  And to an extent they are almost being "pushed" on us -- out of sympathy towards divorcees and homosexuals, and political correctness.  It is crazy. 

You only have to go to a country like Vietnam -- where divorce is almost non-existent and people rarely think or talk about homosexuality -- and you have to wonder how the Catholic church got so crazy.  In the US in particular.
(10-23-2016, 11:04 PM)RichardP Wrote: [ -> ]I debated about whether to post this in "Catholicism" or other religions but I decided to post it here because I see more and more of this in the Catholic church.

I have gotten into trouble for discussing topics like abortion, divorce, and homosexuality on other forums.  The topic that ultimately got me into the most trouble was divorce and remarriage. 

I got a bit obsessed with the topic of divorce and remarriage when I got older because it became "personal" to me.  No I didn't get a divorce, but as I got older I found that more and more of the singles my age were divorced -- and people started pushing me to date, and consider, divorcees WITH KIDS... They were sort of trying to help the divorcees and fighting for these "underdogs".  And they did not really want me to date and marry a younger never married woman.  Suddenly I found myself trying to defend myself in terms of my own private personal life.

I dated a number of divorcees with kids and found myself feeling guilty for taking the mothers attention from their kids.  The kids resented me or felt hurt and scared -- and I totally agreed with the kids.  I could not do it. And made me feel guilty too. Plus it seemed that almost all of the Christians and Catholics seemed to have the position that -- despite what Jesus taught -- it was very wrong for a single Christian man to reject a woman because she was divorced and had kids.

I became a fan of "Dr Laura" because she was critical of divorcees dating and remarrying until their children were grown.  And her argument made sense to me.

When I got back involved with the Catholic Church I was further frustrated by Catholics who argued that "divorce" and remarriage was wrong but remarriage after an "annulment" was okay... And as an "older" (Over 39 years old) Catholic I was forbidden from attending "Young Adults" groups -- and I could only socialize in older groups which seemed to be almost exclusively divorcees with kids...

Ultimately I married a Vietnamese woman who was a Buddhist.  I was rebelling to an extent.  But now I have a cute son and a good marriage with a loving wife.  Which is what I was after all along.

Why has religion become so politically correct?  Is it really a positive thing. Whether we are perfect or not (Sin, be promiscuous, get divorced, etc.) shouldn't the church still aspire and preach better? Does it really help anybody?  I believe that I would have made a huge mistake if I had married a divorcee with kids.  Who I married did not have to be some sort of misguided "act of charity".

Is the Pope leading the Catholic Church -- the Catholic people -- in a distructive direction by trying to be "sensitive" to divorcees, and homosexuals?

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Hey Richard P,

Take a look at these two articles as they are related to what you are addressing, which you may find interesting.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religio...novic.html

http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questio...enovic.htm

Clearly pre Vatican II things were very different. Today, unwed mothers, divorcees, are not shamed.  Only the men who aren't interested in them are shamed!

Catholic morals have not changed nor could be changed, but certainly attitudes have.  Personally, I feel for these divorcee ladies or those who have been victims
of an annulment process that has gone off the rails, leaving serious doubt in some of people's situations.

However, the attempts at guilting men in their 20's, 30's, and 40's into marrying or seeing these women as obligatory dating prospects is reprehensible.  Men are actually made to feel bad for not being interested in that situation. Furthermore, the modern day looking down upon established men interested in younger women marriage prospects is ridiculous.  Pope St. Pius X's father was literally 21 years older than Pius's mother.  It was not at all uncommon for men in their mid to late 30's to be marrying older teenage girls or those in their early 20's up until fairly recently.

Ladies today harboring resentment don't like that one bit and think men now do not "deserve" a younger woman or something, or for whatever reason known to them.
(10-24-2016, 12:30 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: [ -> ]And there are many divorced people who were dumped, who did not initiate divorce, didn't want to get divorced, etc. The point: we should refrain from making rash assumptions about others

This. I'm divorced from my first husband, but not by choice. He was leaving no matter what I did because he was in love with someone else and wanted to be with her instead. I was 23 years old. Legal divorces can proceed without your consent. I did get an annulment (which I instigated before ever meeting my husband), and we never had children. I am now remarried (11 years this Saturday!!) and we have 4 children.

That being said, I totally get what the OP is saying about feeling like he's taking the parent away from the kids. I kinda perceive that too, there's been quite a bit of divorce/remarriage in the family so I'm seeing it first-hand. However in this day and age of shared custody (at least here), the reality is that a lot of people only have their kids 1/2 time. The other 1/2 of the time they're basically free to live as a single person. I can see that maybe that's lonely, and if you're free to remarry via annulment I can see how dating suddenly becomes very attractive.
I agree with the comments, but I need to fix something.  I am somehow posting under two different names.  I am both "RichardP" and "Southerncaliforniaguy".  I made the new "Southerncaliforniaguy" account because I was having trouble with the other account.  Then I logged in with my other account without even realizing it.  Sorry. I think I will go back to posting as RichardP since my name is Richard Primbs.

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