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Hello,

I use the Universalis Android app to read vespers with my family each evening. I was wondering: are we using only one of many different renditions of the LotH? Are certain movements of the prayers things that can licitly vary by publisher? I am especially curious with regard to the 'prayers and intercessions' section, which often seems to have prayers regarding current hot button issues, ie. immigration and racism. Where do these come from? Are all priests praying them? Has the Church always included them in the LotH? I don't have a problem with them, I quite like them, but I was just curious if these have always been here and whether we're all reading the exact same thing every night.

For what it's worth, under my settings menu I've selected 'Jerusalem Bible & Grail for the readings and psalms. Now that I look at this, though, I notice that I can toggle 'prayers and antiphons' on or off, which I guess means the prayers I mention above are not required for the LotH. Is a personal-particulars-prayer section required for vespers? Do people do their own thing for that part sometimes?
(11-05-2016, 08:51 PM)StJoseph Wrote: [ -> ]Hello,

I use the Universalis Android app to read vespers with my family each evening. I was wondering: are we using only one of many different renditions of the LotH? Are certain movements of the prayers things that can licitly vary by publisher? I am especially curious with regard to the 'prayers and intercessions' section, which often seems to have prayers regarding current hot button issues, ie. immigration and racism. Where do these come from? Are all priests praying them? Has the Church always included them in the LotH? I don't have a problem with them, I quite like them, but I was just curious if these have always been here and whether we're all reading the exact same thing every night.

For what it's worth, under my settings menu I've selected 'Jerusalem Bible & Grail for the readings and psalms. Now that I look at this, though, I notice that I can toggle 'prayers and antiphons' on or off, which I guess means the prayers I mention above are not required for the LotH. Is a personal-particulars-prayer section required for vespers? Do people do their own thing for that part sometimes?

I suggest divinumofficium.com.  That's what I use when I pray the breviary.  It's free and easy to read.  There are several editions to choose from on the site, and it includes good side-by-side English translations which you may prefer to use with your family instead of Latin.  The breviary went through a few transformations throughout the 1900's (Pre-Vatican II), and the site has side-by-side comparisons (of the English translations) that you can look at to study.  I find the breviary doesn't have politically-motivated prayers like that- just psalms and other prayers of the Church that focus on preparing for eternity.

http://divinumofficium.com/
+1 on divinum officium. It's also good if you're at Latin Mass without a missal since they have the daily mass on there.
Universalis does not have the publication rights to the official translations, as far as I know. That said, the official translations are largely terrible. And yes, much of everything in the LOTH is variable and to some degree optional. It's frankly a mess, with about the only thing really recommending it being that it is accessible to lay people in terms of its length compared to the traditional office. Regarding the intercessions, it is permissible to add your own, so the site may have done so; the original intercessions in Latin are pretty "social justice-y" anyway though.
(11-07-2016, 03:30 PM)aquinas138 Wrote: [ -> ]Universalis does not have the publication rights to the official translations, as far as I know. That said, the official translations are largely terrible. And yes, much of everything in the LOTH is variable and to some degree optional. It's frankly a mess, with about the only thing really recommending it being that it is accessible to lay people in terms of its length compared to the traditional office. Regarding the intercessions, it is permissible to add your own, so the site may have done so; the original intercessions in Latin are pretty "social justice-y" anyway though.

True,but Universalis or the official LOTH are still decent for people to start building a habit of liturgical style prayer.  They are just short enough for beginners to not feel overwhelmed.
(11-07-2016, 04:07 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-07-2016, 03:30 PM)aquinas138 Wrote: [ -> ]Universalis does not have the publication rights to the official translations, as far as I know. That said, the official translations are largely terrible. And yes, much of everything in the LOTH is variable and to some degree optional. It's frankly a mess, with about the only thing really recommending it being that it is accessible to lay people in terms of its length compared to the traditional office. Regarding the intercessions, it is permissible to add your own, so the site may have done so; the original intercessions in Latin are pretty "social justice-y" anyway though.

True,but Universalis or the official LOTH are still decent for people to start building a habit of liturgical style prayer.  They are just short enough for beginners to not feel overwhelmed.

I just checked and saw that iBreviary is available on Android.  My spiritual director told me that one has the approved translations.
(11-07-2016, 05:03 PM)Credidi Propter Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-07-2016, 04:07 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-07-2016, 03:30 PM)aquinas138 Wrote: [ -> ]Universalis does not have the publication rights to the official translations, as far as I know. That said, the official translations are largely terrible. And yes, much of everything in the LOTH is variable and to some degree optional. It's frankly a mess, with about the only thing really recommending it being that it is accessible to lay people in terms of its length compared to the traditional office. Regarding the intercessions, it is permissible to add your own, so the site may have done so; the original intercessions in Latin are pretty "social justice-y" anyway though.

True,but Universalis or the official LOTH are still decent for people to start building a habit of liturgical style prayer.  They are just short enough for beginners to not feel overwhelmed.

I just checked and saw that iBreviary is available on Android.  My spiritual director told me that one has the approved translations.

The local parish here uses Ibreviary. It's not that bad for those who use the LOTH.
Excellent info, thanks all. Aquinas138 and formerbuddhist, do you have recommendations for a "liturgical prayer"ish  path  for families to build up toward? If the LotH is just an entry-level thing, I mean.

Personally looking for something shorter than a rosary, which for us is a bit much for toddler's pre-bedtime ritual currently.
(11-07-2016, 07:46 PM)StJoseph Wrote: [ -> ]Excellent info, thanks all. Aquinas138 and formerbuddhist, do you have recommendations for a "liturgical prayer"ish  path  for families to build up toward? If the LotH is just an entry-level thing, I mean.

Personally looking for something shorter than a rosary, which for us is a bit much for toddler's pre-bedtime ritual currently.

I would say the LOTH may be best in terms of time, especially if you desire to follow the calendar and you usually attend the NO. What hours are you saying as a family? If you are interested in the traditional office, Prime and Compline make fairly short morning and evening prayer and have few moving parts compared to the other hours. The Little Office of the Virgin is basically the same every day, and a bit shorter than the Roman Office. The Little Office is probably comparable in length to the LOTH, with less variation but having all the canonical hours. It was a tremendously popular devotion in the Middle Ages, and was used by some religious orders as their proper Office instead of the Divine Office.

ETA: The Monastic/Benedictine Office is a good option too. It is similar to the Roman Office, but the lesser hours are shorter.
(11-07-2016, 07:54 PM)aquinas138 Wrote: [ -> ]I would say the LOTH may be best in terms of time, especially if you desire to follow the calendar and you usually attend the NO. What hours are you saying as a family? If you are interested in the traditional office, Prime and Compline make fairly short morning and evening prayer and have few moving parts compared to the other hours. The Little Office of the Virgin is basically the same every day, and a bit shorter than the Roman Office. The Little Office is probably comparable in length to the LOTH, with less variation but having all the canonical hours. It was a tremendously popular devotion in the Middle Ages, and was used by some religious orders as their proper Office instead of the Divine Office.

ETA: The Monastic/Benedictine Office is a good option too. It is similar to the Roman Office, but the lesser hours are shorter.

Perfect, I'll look into all of these suggestions. Currently we only do vespers on Universalis. Also, we are parishioners at an FSSP parish, so the historical prayer stuff isn't foreign to us. We like that sort of thing. But I'm not proficient enough in Latin to use the language in prayers at home, for sure. It'd be a total mutilation of the work.
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