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Thank you, Dave01!!!
(02-01-2017, 05:23 AM)Dave01 Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-31-2017, 08:05 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]In other news Bishop Fellay has said that he's ready to usher in the destruction of the SSPX by surrendering it sovereignty to a maniac impostor in white whose bitterness leads him to take criminal actions to remove those from power who don't share his heretical, blasphemous views. make a full return to the Vatican.

http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/bp-f...-condition

I think we do not have to wait for everything to be resolved in the Church, for all the problems to be solved. But a certain number of conditions are necessary, and for us the essential condition is our survival. So I have told Rome, very clearly, that, just as Archbishop [Marcel] Lefebvre used to say in his day, we have a sine qua non condition: if this condition is not met, then we will not move. And this condition is for us to be able to remain as we are, to keep all the principles that have kept us alive, that have kept us Catholic."

How on earth do you get that from Bp. Fellay's quote?

Here's the thing...If Bergoligo is willing to deny the sovereignty of the Order of Malta and abuse the patient pleadings of the bishops for corrective interpretations of Amoris Laetitia...what good are the Vatican promises to the SSPX?

If the Vatican gives the SSPX everything they've asked for, and the SSPX decides to 'reconcile', what on earth does the Bishop believe that Bergoligo won't manoeuvre to force more "V2" priests in the society ---or fire His Excellency and replace him with a modernist heretic?
Albrecht von Boeselager, the grand chancellor of the Sovereign Order of Malta, thanked Pope Francis for “his guidance that helped end … crises” in the order’s governance.

Boeselager also said that “in all his decisions the Pontiff showed respect and regard for the Order of Malta, while at the same time acknowledging in all his actions, the sovereignty of the Order.”

Boeselager had been expelled from his post by Fra’ Matthew Festing, the Order’s grand master. He was later restored to his position after Pope Francis ordered Festing to resign.

Boeselager said that his expulsion reflected the fact that Festing had been “ill advised.” He declined to comment on the role of Cardinal Raymond Burke, the patron of the Knights of Malta. However he did confirm that a new papal delegate, to be named by Pope Francis, would become the main conduit between the Order and the Holy See. Regarding the future role of Cardinal Burke, Boeselager said: “That is left to the decision of the Holy Father.”

“The resignation of the Grand Master opens a new phase in the life of the Order, and with renewed vigor, the Order concentrates fully on the enormous challenges in humanitarian diplomacy and the work on the ground,” the Sovereign Order of Malta said in February 2 statement.

The Order’s current government “thanked the members of the Papal Commission for the rapid delivery of their report” on the situation. The Order also rejected “unfounded and baseless allegations of a conflict of interest raised against members of the commission.”

In its February 2 statement, the Order lamented “discriminatory positions towards immigrants”:

We are alarmed and concerned by the proliferation of discriminatory positions towards immigrants, not least, based on their national origin. History has already provided us with plenty of examples showing the dramatic and monstrous consequences of policies based on origin and race. Likewise, the Government takes a strong stance against the increasing disregard for the humanitarian laws encoded in the Geneva Conventions ratified by the family of nations.

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/head...ryid=30662
(02-04-2017, 07:45 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-01-2017, 05:23 AM)Dave01 Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-31-2017, 08:05 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]In other news Bishop Fellay has said that he's ready to usher in the destruction of the SSPX by surrendering it sovereignty to a maniac impostor in white whose bitterness leads him to take criminal actions to remove those from power who don't share his heretical, blasphemous views. make a full return to the Vatican.

http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/bp-f...-condition

I think we do not have to wait for everything to be resolved in the Church, for all the problems to be solved. But a certain number of conditions are necessary, and for us the essential condition is our survival. So I have told Rome, very clearly, that, just as Archbishop [Marcel] Lefebvre used to say in his day, we have a sine qua non condition: if this condition is not met, then we will not move. And this condition is for us to be able to remain as we are, to keep all the principles that have kept us alive, that have kept us Catholic."

How on earth do you get that from Bp. Fellay's quote?

Here's the thing...If Bergoligo is willing to deny the sovereignty of the Order of Malta and abuse the patient pleadings of the bishops for corrective interpretations of Amoris Laetitia...what good are the Vatican promises to the SSPX?

If the Vatican gives the SSPX everything they've asked for, and the SSPX decides to 'reconcile', what on earth does the Bishop believe that Bergoligo won't manoeuvre to force more "V2" priests in the society ---or fire His Excellency and replace him with a modernist heretic?

1. Is there any evidence to suggest Bp. Fellay is unaware of these dangers? No.
2. Is there any positive evidence to suggest Bp. Fellay is aware of these dangers? Yes
3. Have there been any actions by Bp. Fellay which would suggest he is looking for a deal which would compromise the the Society? No
4. Have there been any positive actions by Bp. Fellay which would suggest he is not willing to accept a deal, for the sake of a deal? Yes
5. Is Bp. Fellay more aware of all the dangers/issues/details than we are? Yes
6. Is there any reason, aside from vague, uncharitable, and unsubstantiated gossip, to suggest that Bp. Fellay is either stupid, or is looking to damage the SSPX? 100% No

Given these facts, I repeat my position that some people should seriously consider their words before attacking the prelates of the Society.
My opinion, based on nothing other than thinking about this situation and reading news articles, is that Bishop Fellay knows how temperamental the pope is. It appears to me quite wise to string the pope along lest he come down in a heavy-handed fashion on the Society. While I do not think it wise to actually enter into an agreement with Rome at this time, it is also not wise to make an enemy of this pope.
(02-06-2017, 01:55 AM)Dave01 Wrote: [ -> ]1. Is there any evidence to suggest Bp. Fellay is unaware of these dangers? No.
2. Is there any positive evidence to suggest Bp. Fellay is aware of these dangers? Yes
3. Have there been any actions by Bp. Fellay which would suggest he is looking for a deal which would compromise the the Society? No
4. Have there been any positive actions by Bp. Fellay which would suggest he is not willing to accept a deal, for the sake of a deal? Yes
5. Is Bp. Fellay more aware of all the dangers/issues/details than we are? Yes
6. Is there any reason, aside from vague, uncharitable, and unsubstantiated gossip, to suggest that Bp. Fellay is either stupid, or is looking to damage the SSPX? 100% No

Given these facts, I repeat my position that some people should seriously consider their words before attacking the prelates of the Society.

We'll have to await and see what the future holds.


(02-06-2017, 04:58 PM)ermy_law Wrote: [ -> ]My opinion, based on nothing other than thinking about this situation and reading news articles, is that Bishop Fellay knows how temperamental the pope is. It appears to me quite wise to string the pope along lest he come down in a heavy-handed fashion on the Society. While I do not think it wise to actually enter into an agreement with Rome at this time, it is also not wise to make an enemy of this pope.

I agree, but one cannot help but be slightly skeptical that His Excellency seems more warm to the Vatican under Bergoligo, than under Benedict XVI.
(02-06-2017, 09:26 PM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-06-2017, 01:55 AM)Dave01 Wrote: [ -> ]1. Is there any evidence to suggest Bp. Fellay is unaware of these dangers? No.
2. Is there any positive evidence to suggest Bp. Fellay is aware of these dangers? Yes
3. Have there been any actions by Bp. Fellay which would suggest he is looking for a deal which would compromise the the Society? No
4. Have there been any positive actions by Bp. Fellay which would suggest he is not willing to accept a deal, for the sake of a deal? Yes
5. Is Bp. Fellay more aware of all the dangers/issues/details than we are? Yes
6. Is there any reason, aside from vague, uncharitable, and unsubstantiated gossip, to suggest that Bp. Fellay is either stupid, or is looking to damage the SSPX? 100% No

Given these facts, I repeat my position that some people should seriously consider their words before attacking the prelates of the Society.

We'll have to await and see what the future holds.

Agreed. And while waiting, we should give His Excellency every benefit of the doubt, and pray most earnestly that God's will be done in the case of the SSPX-Rome relations.
Pope Francis has appointed Archbishop Giovanni Angelo Becciu as his special delegate to the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

Since 2011, Archbishop Becciu has served as the sostituto—one of the leading officials of the Secretariat of State, responsible for the coordination of the Roman Curia. While remaining in that position, the prelate will serve as special delegate until the conclusion of the order’s extraordinary general chapter, at which a new grand master will be elected.

In a letter dated February 2 and made public on February 4, Pope Francis told Archbishop Becciu that he would help draft revisions to the Order’s constitutional charter.

“Until the termination of your mandate, that is, up to the conclusion of the extraordinary Chapter which shall elect the Grand Master, you shall be my exclusive spokesman in all matters regarding the relations between this Apostolic See and the Order,” Pope Francis wrote. “I therefore delegate to you all the powers necessary to decide on any eventual issues that may arise with regard to the implementation of the mandate entrusted to you.”

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/head...ryid=30674
(02-06-2017, 11:57 PM)Dave01 Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-06-2017, 09:26 PM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-06-2017, 01:55 AM)Dave01 Wrote: [ -> ]1. Is there any evidence to suggest Bp. Fellay is unaware of these dangers? No.
2. Is there any positive evidence to suggest Bp. Fellay is aware of these dangers? Yes
3. Have there been any actions by Bp. Fellay which would suggest he is looking for a deal which would compromise the the Society? No
4. Have there been any positive actions by Bp. Fellay which would suggest he is not willing to accept a deal, for the sake of a deal? Yes
5. Is Bp. Fellay more aware of all the dangers/issues/details than we are? Yes
6. Is there any reason, aside from vague, uncharitable, and unsubstantiated gossip, to suggest that Bp. Fellay is either stupid, or is looking to damage the SSPX? 100% No

Given these facts, I repeat my position that some people should seriously consider their words before attacking the prelates of the Society.

We'll have to await and see what the future holds.

Agreed. And while waiting, we should give His Excellency every benefit of the doubt, and pray most earnestly that God's will be done in the case of the SSPX-Rome relations.

Agreed, but I have been told to do the same regarding Bergoligo.  If His Excellency appears to be more friendly with a 'reunion' with Rome...I will not cease in voicing criticism.  I pray he will not be lead down a primrose path.
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