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Many of you already know this but, I have friend who is 99% catholic, but can't attend mass. She also believes in various errors like universalism. Due to complications, that I will discuss later, I have decided to take a break from the ecumenical site we converse on. Upon telling my friend that I was leaving, she offered to offer up prayers for me, and that got me thinking. I had been developing a devotion of sorts of, in addition to the first Friday, and First Saturday devotions, offering up minor prayers of reparations every Friday and ever Saturday. I was wondering if I could ask her to join in, that maybe doing these prayers might warm her to an authentic understanding of the Catholic Faith, what do you think? Also how fruitful would it be, if I her to pray, that I develop a filial fear of the Lord?
(08-08-2017, 05:22 PM)MaryLover Wrote: [ -> ]Many of you already know this but, I have friend who is 99% catholic, but can't attend mass. She also believes in various errors like universalism. Due to complications, that I will discuss later, I have decided to take a break from the ecumenical site we converse on. Upon telling my friend that I was leaving, she offered to offer up prayers for me, and that got me thinking. I had been developing a devotion of sorts of, in addition to the first Friday, and First Saturday devotions, offering up minor prayers of reparations every Friday and ever Saturday. I was wondering if I could ask her to join in, that maybe doing these prayers might warm her to an authentic understanding of the Catholic Faith, what do you think? Also how fruitful would it be, if I her to pray, that I develop a filial fear of the Lord?

One who is not in the state of grace cannot merit (because they lack the thing that is at the root of merit: Sanctifying Grace), but it is not as if their prayer or efforts are totally useless.

In themselves they will not gain the person heaven, but they can dispose the person more toward the sources of grace. By inviting her to pray the Rosary, for example, you will dispose her to certain graces. If she willingly accepts these graces, other graces may follow and lead her to God giving Sanctifying Grace.

The only thing to avoid is praying together publicly or joining her for her non-Catholic prayers.

But then again, we don't know the secrets of the heart, and it is possible that she has at some point made enough of an act of Faith, Contrition, Hope and Charity that she is in the state of grace. How fruitful will those prayers be? God knows, but they are not totally worthless. At the very least they may help dispose her toward grace.
(08-09-2017, 10:40 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-08-2017, 05:22 PM)MaryLover Wrote: [ -> ]Many of you already know this but, I have friend who is 99% catholic, but can't attend mass. She also believes in various errors like universalism. Due to complications, that I will discuss later, I have decided to take a break from the ecumenical site we converse on. Upon telling my friend that I was leaving, she offered to offer up prayers for me, and that got me thinking. I had been developing a devotion of sorts of, in addition to the first Friday, and First Saturday devotions, offering up minor prayers of reparations every Friday and ever Saturday. I was wondering if I could ask her to join in, that maybe doing these prayers might warm her to an authentic understanding of the Catholic Faith, what do you think? Also how fruitful would it be, if I her to pray, that I develop a filial fear of the Lord?

One who is not in the state of grace cannot merit (because they lack the thing that is at the root of merit: Sanctifying Grace), but it is not as if their prayer or efforts are totally useless.

In themselves they will not gain the person heaven, but they can dispose the person more toward the sources of grace. By inviting her to pray the Rosary, for example, you will dispose her to certain graces. If she willingly accepts these graces, other graces may follow and lead her to God giving Sanctifying Grace.

The only thing to avoid is praying together publicly or joining her for her non-Catholic prayers.

But then again, we don't know the secrets of the heart, and it is possible that she has at some point made enough of an act of Faith, Contrition, Hope and Charity that she is in the state of grace. How fruitful will those prayers be? God knows, but they are not totally worthless. At the very least they may help dispose her toward grace.
Can you clarify on the "praying publicly" part? Because the reparations to the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts are sort of public, but in a Catholic setting.
(08-08-2017, 05:22 PM)MaryLover Wrote: [ -> ]I was wondering if I could ask her to join in, that maybe doing these prayers might warm her to an authentic understanding of the Catholic Faith, what do you think? Also how fruitful would it be, if I her to pray, that I develop a filial fear of the Lord?

Indeed yes!

Prayer opens hearts and souls and your faith, coupled with your prayers, especially when praying together, can work wonders!

Jesus loves to forgive and be merciful, even to unbelievers who show faith; even a hated Canaanite woman:

From today's Gospel Reading: Wrote:Gospel Mt 15: 21-28
At that time Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.
And behold, a Canaanite woman of that district came and called out,
"Have pity on me, Lord, Son of David!
My daughter is tormented by a demon."
But he did not say a word in answer to her.
His disciples came and asked him,
"Send her away, for she keeps calling out after us."
He said in reply,
"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
But the woman came and did him homage, saying, "Lord, help me."
He said in reply,
"It is not right to take the food of the children
and throw it to the dogs."
She said, "Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps
that fall from the table of their masters."
Then Jesus said to her in reply,
"O woman, great is your faith!
Let it be done for you as you wish."
And her daughter was healed from that hour.

I just had to put this into the discussion. It is for me a very powerful moment of mercy!
Sincere prayer is always a good thing, with or without another person, for another person or people, for yourself, or the prayer of others for you.

I really don't think we can measure just how "fruitful" our prayers or those of others are or can be.

Of course you can ask her to join with you in prayer!  Why in heaven's name not??  And, if she chooses not to, do not judge her for that. :)
Prayer of any sort is fine as long as its not heretical in nature and it doesn't cause scandal by causing people to think you agree with her beliefs.

The prayer of a person not in a state of grace has no merit by itself but relies solely on Gods mercy. If you are in a state of grace your prayers will certainly help her by disposing her to receive actual grace which in turn may lead her to have recourse to the sacraments.

It's not that God doesn't answer the prayers of those not in a state of grace but rather He is less inclined to do so apart from His own mercy.
(08-10-2017, 01:09 PM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]Prayer of any sort is fine as long as its not heretical in nature and it doesn't cause scandal by causing people to think you agree with her beliefs.

The prayer of a person not in a state of grace has no merit by itself but relies solely on Gods mercy. If you are in a state of grace your prayers will certainly help her by disposing her to receive actual grace which in turn may lead her to have recourse to the sacraments.

It's not that God doesn't answer the prayers of those not in a state of grace but rather He is less inclined to do so apart from His own mercy.

And we know that how....?
We should never discourage someone not to pray. It's not up to us to know whether someone's prsyers are efficacious or not.  I tend to think in some mysterious way prayer is mostly about God, NOT about man.  

I also think the idea of there being such a thing as a "state" of grace to be grossly unhelpful, and probably even (for me) a ticket to scrupulosity and hopelessness.
Our Lord is a person with free will, furiously in love with all human beings. This talk about "merit" makes Him sound like a kind of spiritual soda machine.

"You need to put in 10% more merit for your prayer to be granted."

"Prayers can only be granted for applicants in a state of grace. Please try again later. ....*Music*... You are still not in a state of grace. Please try again later. *Music*"
I think Catholics often make it seem like your prayers are useless if you're not in a state of grace. It makes me wonder how anyone who habitually falls into sin will ever be able to get out if they feel that their prayer is useless when they're in a state of mortal. They'll just say, why should I pray while I'm in sin? When I go to confession, I'll be back in a state of grace and then I'll begin to pray again when God will hear my prayers. For a habitual sinner, they'll never be able to get into any habit of prayer, which is very important for breaking any sinful habit.
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