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I have noticed some sources claiming that the Consecration of Russia has not taken place yet. So I did a little checking. I don't dispute in any way that the "errors of Russia" are well entrenched in the USA. These errors, the heresy of modernism, and moral relativistic thinking, are the main reason we chose to keep our children out of public and parochial schools and teach them at home. I prayed about the decision before the Blessed Sacrament many times and always felt an inward command "do not put your children is school" The Lord brought many situations to mind during those prayer times where I had experienced the fruit of poor formation in other people from our community, explaining that what He wanted is children who love and obey him. The primary brokenness I still experience in relationships in our 90% catholic community is a distinct lack of charity, pride, greed, and slander. My children are doing well, 11 of 12 still are faithful and the one exception has succumbed to moral relativism, but we are discussing things regularly and I am hopeful that he is just going through a stage.

So here is what I found out about the "Consecration of Russia to the Imaculate heart of Mary"

Letters of Sr. Lucia Santos, OCD on the Consecration
Letter 1: To Sr. Mary of Bethlehem
J.+ M. Pax Christi

Dear Sister Mary of Bethlehem:
Received your letter and, although I have very little time at my disposal I will answer your question which is: Is the Consecration of the world, according to the request of Our Lady, made?
On Oct. 31, 1942, His Holiness Pius XII made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made as Our Lady requested. I answered "NO," because it was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.
Later, on May 13, 1967, His Holiness Paul VI made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made as Our Lady requested. I responded "NO," for the same reason, it was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.
On May 13, 1982, His Holiness John Paul II made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made. I responded "NO." It was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.
Then this same Supreme Pontiff, John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world asking them to unite with him. He sent for the statute of Our Lady of Fátima -- the one from the little Chapel to be taken to Rome and on March 25, 1984 - publicly - with the bishops who wanted to unite with His Holiness, made the Consecration as Our Lady requested. They then asked me if it was made as Our Lady requested, and I said, "YES." Now it was made.
Why this urgency of God that this Consecration should be made in union with all the bishops of the world? Because this Consecration is a call for unity of all Christians - The Mystical Body of Christ - whose head is the Pope, the one, true representative of Christ on earth to whom the Lord confided the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and on this union depends the faith in the world and the charity which is the bond that must unite all of us in Christ, as that which He wants, and as He asked the Father: "As You, O Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You have sent Me. . . I in them, and You in Me; that they be made perfect in one, and the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them as You have loved Me" (John 17:21-23).
As we see of the union depends the faith and the charity that must be the bond of our union in Christ, whose true representative on earth is the Pope.
A hug to your mother and my greetings to the rest of the family in union with prayers.
Coimbra, August 29,1989
Sr. Lucia
[Commentary: Those who say Sr. Lucia mentions only the "world" above but not "Russia" and was therefore not writing of the Collegial Consecration requested by heaven are not being realistic. They should refer to all the articles in the special issue on the Collegial Consecration in the Fátima Family Apostolate's "Fátima Family Messenger" (Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1989). Fr. Messias Coelho, theologian and editor of the Portuguese journal "Mesagem de Fátima," answered the objection effectively from the philosophical and theological aspect. Sister Lucia, out of respect for the Pope, spoke of it the way our Holy Father did, using the word "world, " which included Russia. In the letter the Pope sent to the world's bishops, the Holy Father clarified that it was to renew both the consecration of the world (1942) and Russia (1952). This time he did so in union with the bishops.]
Quote:
Letter 2: To Fr. Robert Fox
J.+ M.

Pax Christi

Rev . do Sr. P. Robert J. Fox
Recebi a sua carta e venho responder á sua pergunta: "Se a Consagração feita por João Paulo II, em 25 de Março de 1984, em união com todos os Bispos do mundo, cumpriu as codições para a coversão da Russia, segundo o pedido de Nossa Senhora em Tuy a 13 de Junho de 1929."? Sim, cumpriu, e desde aí, eu tenho dito que está feita.
E digo que não é nenhuma outra pessoa que responde por mim, sou eu quem recebe a correspondência, abre as cartas e responde.
Em união de orações
Coimbra, 3-VII-l99O
Irmã Lúcia
(signature)
 
TRANSLATION:
Quote:
J.+ M.

The Peace of Christ
 
Rev. Father Robert J. Fox
I come to answer your question, "If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?" Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made.
And I say that no other person responds for me, it is I who receive and open all letters and respond to them.
Coimbra, 3 July 1990
Sister Lucia
(08-24-2017, 10:22 PM)Panum Wrote: [ -> ]I have noticed some sources claiming that the Consecration of Russia has not taken place yet. So I did a little checking. I don't dispute in any way that the "errors of Russia" are well entrenched in the USA. These errors, the heresy of modernism, and moral relativistic thinking, are the main reason we chose to keep our children out of public and parochial schools and teach them at home. I prayed about the decision before the Blessed Sacrament many times and always felt an inward command "do not put your children is school" The Lord brought many situations to mind during those prayer times where I had experienced the fruit of poor formation in other people from our community, explaining that what He wanted is children who love and obey him. The primary brokenness I still experience in relationships in our 90% catholic community is a distinct lack of charity, pride, greed, and slander. My children are doing well, 11 of 12 still are faithful and the one exception has succumbed to moral relativism, but we are discussing things regularly and I am hopeful that he is just going through a stage.

So here is what I found out about the "Consecration of Russia to the Imaculate heart of Mary"

Letters of Sr. Lucia Santos, OCD on the Consecration
Letter 1: To Sr. Mary of Bethlehem
J.+ M. Pax Christi

Dear Sister Mary of Bethlehem:
Received your letter and, although I have very little time at my disposal I will answer your question which is: Is the Consecration of the world, according to the request of Our Lady, made?
On Oct. 31, 1942, His Holiness Pius XII made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made as Our Lady requested. I answered "NO," because it was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.
Later, on May 13, 1967, His Holiness Paul VI made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made as Our Lady requested. I responded "NO," for the same reason, it was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.
On May 13, 1982, His Holiness John Paul II made the Consecration. I was asked if it was made. I responded "NO." It was not made in union with all the bishops of the world.
Then this same Supreme Pontiff, John Paul II wrote to all the bishops of the world asking them to unite with him. He sent for the statute of Our Lady of Fátima -- the one from the little Chapel to be taken to Rome and on March 25, 1984 - publicly - with the bishops who wanted to unite with His Holiness, made the Consecration as Our Lady requested. They then asked me if it was made as Our Lady requested, and I said, "YES." Now it was made.
Why this urgency of God that this Consecration should be made in union with all the bishops of the world? Because this Consecration is a call for unity of all Christians - The Mystical Body of Christ - whose head is the Pope, the one, true representative of Christ on earth to whom the Lord confided the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and on this union depends the faith in the world and the charity which is the bond that must unite all of us in Christ, as that which He wants, and as He asked the Father: "As You, O Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You have sent Me. . . I in them, and You in Me; that they be made perfect in one, and the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them as You have loved Me" (John 17:21-23).
As we see of the union depends the faith and the charity that must be the bond of our union in Christ, whose true representative on earth is the Pope.
A hug to your mother and my greetings to the rest of the family in union with prayers.
Coimbra, August 29,1989
Sr. Lucia
[Commentary: Those who say Sr. Lucia mentions only the "world" above but not "Russia" and was therefore not writing of the Collegial Consecration requested by heaven are not being realistic. They should refer to all the articles in the special issue on the Collegial Consecration in the Fátima Family Apostolate's "Fátima Family Messenger" (Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1989). Fr. Messias Coelho, theologian and editor of the Portuguese journal "Mesagem de Fátima," answered the objection effectively from the philosophical and theological aspect. Sister Lucia, out of respect for the Pope, spoke of it the way our Holy Father did, using the word "world, " which included Russia. In the letter the Pope sent to the world's bishops, the Holy Father clarified that it was to renew both the consecration of the world (1942) and Russia (1952). This time he did so in union with the bishops.]
Quote:
Letter 2: To Fr. Robert Fox
J.+ M.

Pax Christi

Rev . do Sr. P. Robert J. Fox
Recebi a sua carta e venho responder á sua pergunta: "Se a Consagração feita por João Paulo II, em 25 de Março de 1984, em união com todos os Bispos do mundo, cumpriu as codições para a coversão da Russia, segundo o pedido de Nossa Senhora em Tuy a 13 de Junho de 1929."? Sim, cumpriu, e desde aí, eu tenho dito que está feita.
E digo que não é nenhuma outra pessoa que responde por mim, sou eu quem recebe a correspondência, abre as cartas e responde.
Em união de orações
Coimbra, 3-VII-l99O
Irmã Lúcia
(signature)
 
TRANSLATION:
Quote:
J.+ M.

The Peace of Christ
 
Rev. Father Robert J. Fox
I come to answer your question, "If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?" Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made.
And I say that no other person responds for me, it is I who receive and open all letters and respond to them.
Coimbra, 3 July 1990
Sister Lucia
Unfortunately Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Arinze and Cardinal Cordes (a close friend of JP2) have asked for the Consecration of Russia to be done. In fact Cardinal Cordes himself said JP2 wanted to do it but political people in the Vatican told him not to because it would anger the Communista and Russian Orthodox Church. It has not been done as Our Lady requested!!!
Our Lady asked for the Consecration of RUSSIA by the Pope, in union with all the Bishops. Pope John Paul did not mention Russia in the Consecration of the WORLD to the Immaculate Heart that was read in many Churches. It is true that he ad libbed something about Russia or the peoples awaiting consecration, but no one reading the Consecratory Prayer anywhere else included the ad lib. I know. I was present at Mass when the Consecration Prayer was read and there was no mention of Russia, and I was very disappointed that Our Lady's request had been ignored. So, whether or not Russia was consecrated by the Pope, there can be absolutely no doubt that it was not consecrated by all the Bishops 'in union with the Pope', unless every Bishop in the world read the mind of the Pope as he read the Consecration.
Cardinal Arinze even said recently that if the Consecration had been done as Our Lady requested what has happened the last 57 years would not have happened.  And Cardinal Burke last week for the 2nd time asked that the Consecration of Russia needs to be done, if it had already why would these 3 Cardinals be asking for it.
(08-25-2017, 03:52 PM)salus Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Arinze and Cardinal Cordes (a close friend of JP2) have asked for the Consecration of Russia to be done. In fact Cardinal Cordes himself said JP2 wanted to do it but political people in the Vatican told him not to because it would anger the Communista and Russian Orthodox Church. It has not been done as Our Lady requested!!!
Why is this unfortunate? Even if it had already been done it couldn't possibly hurt.
(08-25-2017, 04:46 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]Our Lady asked for the Consecration of RUSSIA by the Pope, in union with all the Bishops. Pope John Paul did not mention Russia in the Consecration of the WORLD to the Immaculate Heart that was read in many Churches. It is true that he ad libbed something about Russia or the peoples awaiting consecration, but no one reading the Consecratory Prayer anywhere else included the ad lib. I know. I was present at Mass when the Consecration Prayer was read and there was no mention of Russia, and I was very disappointed that Our Lady's request had been ignored. So, whether or not Russia was consecrated by the Pope, there can be absolutely no doubt that it was not consecrated by all the Bishops 'in union with the Pope', unless every Bishop in the world read the mind of the Pope as he read the Consecration.

You are absolutely correct that the consecration of Russia as defined by our Lady has not been done.  If it had been completed as requested by our Lady, we should have seen the triumph of the Immaculate Heart and a period of peace for the world.  Does the current state of the world and the Catholic Church today resemble the triumph of Our Lady's Immaculate Heart?  All we have seen since this consecration is war, genocide, and an increase in vice and impurity.

The first Gulf war
The Yugoslavian Civil War (Serbia Bosnia Croatia)
The Somalia Conflict 
The War in Kosovo
The Rwandan Genocide
The War in Chechnya 
The Palestinian Uprising - The Second Intafada 
911 and the War in Afghanistan
The Iraq War
The Narco Wars in Mexico
The destruction of Libya
ISIS and the War in Syria
Saudi war against Yemen

On top of this, on the 100th anniversary of Fatima  there is the potential for major conflict breakout in several theatres, including;

Iran - Israel
Ukraine - Russia
North Korea - USA
China - India 

Several nations are imploding under the weight of anarchy, including Venezuela and the Philippines.  Western Europe is under a relentless wave of immigration that will change its identity.  Abortion, normalized immodesty in general society, the destruction of the middle class, and an opiate epidemic plague the western world.

The Frankfurt School has laid waste to our schools, universities, the major media outlets, and most arms of civil government.  Now, The errors of communism turn to impacting the lives of every single person in society with more upheaval as each day passes, with the radical lefts identity politics, cultural appropriation, and social destruction ideology now attacking the fiber of the ideals that form our foundation as a moral and unified society. In Canada, it is now under debate as to whether our first prime minister's name and legacy should be stripped from all schools and public institutions. 

 Worse than all of this - the continuation of a remarkable loss of faith amongst both priests and laity, which has accelerated under the current papacy, underscored by  Amoris laetitia and the associated confusion and discord. 

As we approach the 100th anniversary of the miracle of the sun, does anybody correlate this current state of affairs with the fruits of a successful consecration and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart, promised by our Lady as part of the single greatest message and public miracle from Heaven?  Myself, with all due respect to the holy family, expect far better once our Lady has her final victory over the devil. Only the divine can fix this mess.
(08-25-2017, 06:31 PM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-25-2017, 03:52 PM)salus Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Arinze and Cardinal Cordes (a close friend of JP2) have asked for the Consecration of Russia to be done. In fact Cardinal Cordes himself said JP2 wanted to do it but political people in the Vatican told him not to because it would anger the Communista and Russian Orthodox Church. It has not been done as Our Lady requested!!!
Why is this unfortunate? Even if it had already been done it couldn't possibly hurt.

I believe Salus used 'unfortunately' to say that the statement that the Consecration has been done is false. Obviously, the fact that these three Cardinals join with myriads of the Christian Faithful in praying for the Consecration to be done as Our Lady requested shows that Their Eminences do not believe it has ever been done.
Ah, i see. Thanks for the clarification.
Oh, but if Sr. Lucia says that the conditions have been met, then who are we to argue? All the same I would have no problem if it was done again , and again....

I wonder if ALL the bishops were in union? I don't know if one refusal would make the consecration invalid. Certainly there are some bishops who hold positions that are controversial and problematic according to what even the average Catholic believes in union with the magesterium. This is probably a given for much of the history of the church. So one could argue that a super majority in consent to the spirit of the request may meet what our Blessed Mother asked. I expect God deals with the rebels in His own way. 

There are something like 5237, give or take a few, Catholic bishops in the world. The Holy Father can only lead by example, admonish, teach, and correct, his charges. It is not a dictatorship.

All the same I would prefer a consecration specific to Russia without the mention of the rest of the world, even if Russia was mentioned as was allegedly done.  But that is just my persuasion.
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