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Hello,

as I understand, the types of work forbidden on Sundays and days of obligation, would be unnecessary paid work / servile labour / commercial things like shopping.

What about travelling, or hours of driving? I don't mean for a job but to drive a family member somewhere. Could that be servile labour or not really? thank you!
(09-04-2017, 01:14 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: [ -> ]Hello,

as I understand, the types of work forbidden on Sundays and days of obligation, would be unnecessary paid work / servile labour / commercial things like shopping.

What about travelling, or hours of driving? I don't mean for a job but to drive a family member somewhere. Could that be servile labour or not really? thank you!

That would not count I don't think. It's not working and it's not forcing anybody to work.
(09-04-2017, 01:14 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: [ -> ]Hello,

as I understand, the types of work forbidden on Sundays and days of obligation, would be unnecessary paid work / servile labour / commercial things like shopping.

What about travelling, or hours of driving? I don't mean for a job but to drive a family member somewhere. Could that be servile labour or not really? thank you!

Well... you have to commute to Mass, don't you?
(09-04-2017, 01:14 PM)little_flower10 Wrote: [ -> ]Hello,

as I understand, the types of work forbidden on Sundays and days of obligation, would be unnecessary paid work / servile labour / commercial things like shopping.

What about travelling, or hours of driving? I don't mean for a job but to drive a family member somewhere. Could that be servile labour or not really? thank you!

Unnecessary servile work is forbidden on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation.

Pay does not enter into it.

Commercial transactions or legal courts being forbidden on a Sunday or Holy Day is generally a carry-over from civil law and the sensus fidei, but is not forbidden by Church law. Only unnecessary servile work is.

Servile works is defined as the work that a servant would have done historically. Thus mending clothes unnecessarily would be servile work, while a lawyer studying his cases would not.

Several bishops wanted the Second Vatican Council to define what was forbidden in light of the new technologies (e.g. a washing machine), so the prohibition more accurately reflected the need to set aside time for family and God.

Still what is forbidden is servile work. Driving, like riding your horse would have been, is not servile.

There's also what local custom has allowed. For instance, in many towns there is a Sunday market. Long-standing customs allows this.

And finally, there is double effect. While you should not go shopping, many shops are open on Sundays and your refusal will have no effect, so you do not sin if there is a legitimate reason for going.
MagisterMusicae,  what is the stance on dining out at restaurants?  It the work that a chef or waiter does considered servile and therefore prohibited?  I was under the impression that it is not forbidden, but I haven't been able to find anything stipulating what is and is not forbidden.  I even saw someone ask whether or not a person should listen to the radio or watch television because that would mean the broadcasters would have to work.

Also, my mother runs a bed and breakfast.  She is a Protestant, but she and I have had discussions about whether or not what she does is a violation of the 3rd Commandment.  She cooks, vacuums, makes beds and then some on those days.  Is that fine?
(10-04-2017, 04:25 PM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote: [ -> ]MagisterMusicae,  what is the stance on dining out at restaurants?  It the work that a chef or waiter does considered servile and therefore prohibited?  I was under the impression that it is not forbidden, but I haven't been able to find anything stipulating what is and is not forbidden.  I even saw someone ask whether or not a person should listen to the radio or watch television because that would mean the broadcasters would have to work.

Also, my mother runs a bed and breakfast.  She is a Protestant, but she and I have had discussions about whether or not what she does is a violation of the 3rd Commandment.  She cooks, vacuums, makes beds and then some on those days.  Is that fine?

The question is about the necessity of servile work. Necessary work is permitted.

So what degree of necessity is needed?

One moral manual puts it this way :


Quote:Necessity excused from the Sunday rest if a considerable harm or loss would otherwise be sustained by oneself or one's neighbor.

Therefore all indispensable housework is legitimate Sunday occupation. Poor people may work on Sundays if they cannot otherwise support themselves. If there is no time or occasion to do so on week days one may mend clothes on Sunday. For the same reason working people may tend their little gardens on Sunday. Farmers may harvest their grain hay, etc., or gather fruit on a Sunday if a storm threatens. — Any necessary work is allowed in case of fire, flood, etc. — Mechanics may sharpen, repair, etc., toots that farmers and artisans need on Monday. Tailors may work on Sunday if they cannot otherwise finish mourning clothes for a funeral. Lighter manual labor is also probably lawful for charitable purposes or to avoid ennui. 
 
That's not exhaustive, of course, but gives examples of what's allowed. Considerable harm is not the same as grave harm, but is more than just a passing inconvenience.

So necessary servile work is work is that done for a just reason, where if not done there would be at least some reasonably notable harm. 

The "hospitality" industry (Restaurants, Lodging and Entertainment venues) have long been customary exceptions, since these facilitate the other workers to relax, reduces their necessary servile work, and provides a legitimate outlet for recreation and entertainment. No moral manual or writer ever lists restaurants, cooking, or hotels and lodging as forbidden.

People need to eat, allowing some to work of the chefs and waiting staff, in fact, reduces the servile work of others. People who are not living at home need a place to stay and to prepare and facilitate their stay someone needs to work, thus this is relatively necessary. People need places to go to relax for some time so they can rededicate themselves to the next work week.

So as regards the B&B. It is fine to prepare the meals, clean, cook, etc. but, anything which could be reasonably put off (e.g. no guests are using the room on Monday, so the laundry and cleaning could be left for Monday or Tuesday), should be.
Little Flower,

What you brought up about driving should not disturb your conscience at all and seems perfectly fine. 

But this issue has always bothered me a little, as far as knowing what to do and the question of shopping on Sunday as well and thereby continuing the rationale for stores to stay open on Sundays.  Magister went into the principle of Double Effect, but I think if enough people stopped shopping on Sundays, businesses would reconsider keeping them open.  This will probably only happen if there is a mass reconversion to the Catholic Faith, however. 

The following should give everyone pause...

St Bernadette was speaking to her brother once. He ran a gift shop at the Grotto. She told him that it was a good idea, but to make sue he didn't open the shop on Sunday and make Our Lord angry.  the 3rd Commandment commands us to go to Mass on Sunday and Holy Days. It forbids missing Mass through one's own faults, unnecessary servile work; public buying and selling' . 

"This was reiterated by Our Lady's message at La Salette. She spoke of the "utter contempt of God's commandments"; especially she said," in the profanation of the Lord's Day and the crime of blasphemy."

The Devotion to the Holy Face is not as well known, but the following has always as well:

In the mid-19th century, in Tours, France, a Carmelite nun named Sister Marie de Saint Pierre (1816-1848) received a private revelation from Our Lord that "Those who will contemplate the wounds on My Face here on earth, shall contemplate it radiant in heaven."

Our Lord to St. Mary of Peter concerning reparation to His Holy Face:


. . . This devotion is to have the twofold purpose of reparation for BLASPHEMY and reparation for the PROFANATION OF SUNDAY and Holy Days of Obligation, the two principal sins which in modern times are provoking the anger of God. Sr. Mary said, "He then made me see that this frightful sin wounds His Divine Heart more grievously than all other sins, showing me how by BLASPHEMY the sinner curses Him to His Face, attacks Him publicly, nullifies His Redemption, and pronounces his own judgment and condemnation & The Savior made me understand that His justice was greatly irritated against mankind for its sins but particularly for those that directly outrage the Majesty of God -- that is, Communism, Atheism, cursing, and the desecration of Sundays and the Holy Days. He said,

"The executioners crucified me on Friday, CHRISTIANS CRUCIFY ME ON SUNDAY".


St. Thomas Aquinas on working on Sundays http://taylormarshall.com/2012/01/can-ca...homas.html

The Land (America) Without a Sunday, by Maria Von Trapp https://www.fisheaters.com/sundaysbytrapp.html

A powerful Sermon,  On Sanctifying Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation http://holyfacedevotion.com/holydays.htm

St. Alphonsus Instructions for the People, Chapter III, The Third Commandment 
Thank you for the replies!

I personally don't go to shopping on Sundays as this was discouraged by my priest unless it's an emergency.. (as in: it's better to do all your grocery shopping on another day if possible)... but sometimes I have questions (like driving, restaurants etc) so it does help to discuss it. I see how driving is kind of like how in the past they would ride a horse somewhere ;) usually I don't need to do any long distance driving on Sunday, but that time the question came up..
What is the reason for taking this person somewhere? shopping? necessary paid work? mass?
(10-06-2017, 02:46 AM)Poche Wrote: [ -> ]What is the reason for taking this person somewhere? shopping? necessary paid work? mass?

In this case, it was going back home after visiting family
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