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I'm not as concerned about recognizing the true pope as I am about recognizing the anti-christ.
(01-05-2018, 06:36 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-05-2018, 09:33 AM)BC Wrote: [ -> ]"To adhere to a false Bishop of Rome [a false "pope"] is to be out of communion with the Church." -St. Cyprian, Church Father

I love those little snippets that quote people without citation and then add the tag line "Church Father" (because the reader wouldn't know that, and just be impressed with the title). Written like that, it's an appeal for people to do theology who have no business doing so. If you don't know who St. Cyprian is, and can't read his works to understand his contexts, then you have no business worrying about whether the bishop of Rome is a false one or not. It would be like quoting Tom Maglliozzi (of CarTalk fame) saying, "If it falls off, it doesn't matter" and then having someone who doesn't even know where the fuel cap is on a car say that the engine is running fine despite that knocking sound.

I don't easily find the phrase with citation to the original work (just attribution) in a quick search, so I would be interested to see the reference (so we could deal with his actual quote). It's like the "he who sings, prays twice" of St. Augstine (which he never wrote or said, in fact, though that's a decent summary of one passage).

Even if that is an accurate quote, still we're dealing with the same man who gave us "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus," which while correct certainly needs to be interpreted to understand it correctly (for which we have the help of tradition, theologians and the Magisterium, who explain what "outside" ore "without" means and what makes one "outside" or "without").

Clearly it is not as categorical as you suggest, given that during the Great Western Schism, we had Saints who accepted different claimants, and that is much more clearly an example of accepting a false Bishop of Rome. During that time, people we accepting one claimant and rejecting the true Pope. That's the definition of schism.

In the present situation (even if we grant the SV hypothesis, which I don't), at worse one is accepting a claimant to the Papacy who is not truly Bishop of Rome, rather than accepting another against the true one. Which could hardly be schism, since one is not rejecting any true Pope.

Either way, I don't see this working or being a "legitimate" concern.

Well as I responded to GangGreen, I think the more important issue is that of the conciliar church, as Archbishop Lefebvre explained. 

Popes come and go. As posted above , more recent canonists tell us the issue is more complicated than St. Cyprian would have it. It was thrown out there for consideration.
(01-05-2018, 06:42 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not as concerned about recognizing the true pope as I am about recognizing the anti-christ.

The interesting thing is there could be some intersection between the Antichrist and Antipope usurpation of the Papal chair.

In the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia about the Antichrist, St. Bernard states the Beast of the Apocalypse as an antipope. The Abbot Joachim believed that Antichrist will overthrow the pope and take his See, deceiving nearly everyone: “Since Antichrist simulates Christ, and the pope is the image of Christ, Antichrist must have some similarity to the pope” (vol. 1, p. 561).

Note: The Antichrist could never be a true pope, as the protestants claim.
(01-05-2018, 09:52 PM)BC Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-05-2018, 06:42 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not as concerned about recognizing the true pope as I am about recognizing the anti-christ.

The interesting thing is there could be some intersection between the Antichrist and Antipope usurpation of the Papal chair.

In the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia about the Antichrist, St. Bernard states the Beast of the Apocalypse as an antipope. The Abbot Joachim believed that Antichrist will overthrow the pope and take his See, deceiving nearly everyone: “Since Antichrist simulates Christ, and the pope is the image of Christ, Antichrist must have some similarity to the pope” (vol. 1, p. 561).

Note: The Antichrist could never be a true pope, as the protestants claim.

Our Lady of La Salette:

Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Antichrist. Yet the Heathen Rome will disappear. See, here is the Beast with its subjects that claims to be the Savior of the world.

I keep wondering what the Pope Paul VI Hall is all about.   ???
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