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Full Version: Would you really blame someone for not being Catholic in today's climate?
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It's easy to see things from the perspective of a Catholic who is frustrated by the current pope, but I was thinking today that with the way things currently are, would a truly righteous person even want to convert?  If someone was genuinely of an internal disposition that brought him firmly in line with all of the true teachings of the Church and he longed to belong to the faith that stood for those teachings, would that person even consider the Church?  Someone exploring the faith would quickly encounter some of Pope Francis or James Martin's comments/actions and a righteous person would quickly conclude that the Church is teaching falsehood.  

Sure you can say that they don't represent the "real Church" but how would anyone reach that conclusion without some serious research AND starting with the assumption that the most authoritative figures in the hierarchy were also lying?  I find that to be an almost improbable journey, frankly.

Anyway, in my mind this is the most scandalous part about the current state of the Church.
I'm sure mine won't be the best answer, but I believe that truly righteous person would want to convert. Not because of the individuals that are so obviously wrong-headed or attempting to thwart or pervert, but in spite of them. I would most certainly say that as a "truly righteous" person, one would feel a call to the Catholic Church. Whether they would follow through might be another story. Father Martin is a symptom, as well as one of those whom the appellation of toady comes to mind, a sad thing to say. The Church doesn't teach falsehood. We can agree, though, that some of its human members are trying to misrepresent their opinions as fact, when they are rather clearly not speaking the Church's eternal truths. I understand the frustration. Don't lose hope.
Well, yes, I would blame someone for not wanting to be a part of the Church in its current state. I stay, even though I believe the current pope who was so swiftly elected to be an evil man. There’s nowhere else to go: “One is my dove, my perfect one is but one, she is the only one of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her.” Everywhere else, they think contraception is ok. Everywhere else, they seem to be gradually caving on homosexual activity and even abortion. I love the Church’s theology and spirituality, and those things are unmatched anywhere else. Even if those in charge hate those things, there’s nowhere else to find them. There are people in the Church who keep the traditional Faith. There are places where it flourishes, quietly of course because they have to be smart about it, but it flourishes. It will flourish long after Fr. James Martin’s wide smirk and Pope Francis’ clownish expression have been replaced by the cold, blue, pursed lips of corpses.
Well, if they're at all a student of history or the Scriptures, they really can't go anywhere else.  But, for the average person who doesn't think much about these matters, I can see why they'd be turned off by the Novus Ordo Masses, and the effeminate priests.  The average diocesan Mass is lukewarm, and often just plain corny.

There's a reason Satan chose the Catholic Church to infiltrate -- it's the only TRUE religion.
(02-07-2018, 08:19 PM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if they're at all a student of history or the Scriptures, they really can't go anywhere else.

I was on my way out of Lutheranism and into Eastern Orthodoxy. It's history, the Fathers, and the Scriptures that let me to convert. Certainly wasn't the current state of the Church.
I can't blame anyone. It is a miracle anyone genuinely converts today.

Spiritual truthseekers want the sublime mystical Catholic Church of history they have seen in movies and read in books, not NewChurch.

To me, a functioning Catholic Church with 100% undoubted sacraments every time, where Catholics could focus on increasing in sanctity without the thousand scruples and questions of conscience we have to deal with seems like a fantastical dream, and yet up until recently was a reality.

For any one who has accepted the grace to know the Catholic Church is true, a discouragement and demoralizing happens very quickly to mitigate one's good hope.
I converted almost 38 years ago. The current Pontificate and situation would have made no difference. I had come to the conclusion that Christ founded the Catholic Church and that he wants all men to belong to the Church he founded. What would I say to him at my judgement? 'Sorry, Lord, I just didn't like the situation, so I refused to join Your Church?'
No I don't blame anyone for not converting, especially when the RCC has so thoroughly undermined everything from its Liturgy to its theology as to be unrecognizable as the same religion as in previous eras. It takes a certain stubbornness, imagination and genuine desire to WANT to understand where---if anywhere--- the true Church is. Of course all these things must be present PLUS grace. You might read your way into Roman Catholicism, but you'll never stay just based on apologetics alone, you need serious grace.


From where I stand today the ONLY reason I've stayed somewhere on the hinterlands of the RCC was because of grace. For some reason, in spite of the completely farcical and banal face of modern Roman Catholicism, I managed to get through RCIA. 

I feel like there was a reason I was called to this communion. I've sensed it even through all my doubts. I still honestly have grave doubts about Francis, about Vatican II, ultramontanism, papal infallibility and a host of other things, but I have experienced grace within Rome. Although I'm about as eccentric as they come in terms of my ecclesial life, I have never seriously felt comfortable severing ties with the Church I was baptized into. 


I don't think most people can handle the type of abuse that traditional minded Catholics have to deal with. You have to have a certain disposition for this, and not everyone is cut out for it.
I think I would. Given that they thoroughly understand the history of the wickedness within the Church and papal infallibility.

However I see your point, and I'd be surprised if I still would have converted if I came into the Church during this Francis mess. My decision to even consider becoming a Catholic was the fact that unlike every Protestant it seemed, they stuck to the Written Word and they had a beautiful service.
Christianity is the only religion makes any logical sense (of course non-Christians would disagree) and the only other denomination that has any sort of sense to it is Orthodoxy. 

As Peter said "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."  It seems that only the Catholic Church carries those words. Anyone who is seeking the Truth and is touched by God's grace has to arrive here even in spite of the madness.

I think there's also a quote out there that goes something along the lines of that any merely human organization that makes the claims of Holy Mother the Church while being assailed from within (no doubt from countless dummies running things plus evil men infiltrating) and without for its entire history, would have collapsed long ago if it were not of divine origin.
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