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Full Version: Do I scandalize my young child for allowing him to be around my homosexual brother?
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(02-21-2018, 06:38 PM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]My youngest brother is an extremely flamboyant, open homosexual.  He has basically all the accompanying personality traits; sarcastic, show-offy, argumentative, profane, passive-aggressive, etc. My wife and son and I will usually see him at my parents' house once a week for supper.  My son is almost 3 years old.

My brother even had a "boyfriend" up until about a year ago.  They were together for a while.  The guy he was with was probably even MORE obnoxious than my brother.   Thankfully he's no longer around.

My question: as my son gets to an age of understanding things a little better, should I do my best to keep him away from my brother?

On one hand, I want to be charitable to my brother to the extent possible (i.e. Treating him kindly, while not giving the appearance of being OK with his manner of life.). On the other hand, I want to keep my son away from any danger.  Thoughts?
Peace...others have posted about the homosexual concerns however I am also thinking about the sarcastic and obnoxious behavior your child is being exposed to - children pick up these habits early and sometimes even look up to them because they are different - just a thought to use some guidance and caution with your child.  Etiquette is important and needs to be taught early and continued right through as well as being a visible and verbal example.  angeltime :grandma:
(02-22-2018, 11:00 AM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong.  I'd have the same concerns about a family member marrying outside the Church (in fact I had a thread about this around Christmas), or a family member living in adultery.  Scandal is scandal.

You would consider not allowing your son to not see a family member merely because they married outside the Church?  Well, that's good, you are at least being consistent.

In my experience, the majority of people who have voiced similar concerns here over the years have only done so if homosexuality was the concerning issue.  They didn't see anything wrong with treating their homosexual family members differently than they did their fornicating, adultering, drunkard or apostatizing heterosexual family members.  Their reaction was quite hot when homosexuality was the issue, but their reaction over any of the others was lukewarm.
I think there are two parts to this issue:
1.  Do we treat all sinners the same or just seem to focus in on homosexuals?
2. How do we protect children from influences that seem unsavory?

I've run into this problem in my own life and here's what I do.  

I view all sinners the same way.  I tell my children we are called to love these family members while not condoning or encouraging their sinful behavior (whatever the sin is).  I'd do the same thing whether it was my lesbian cousin and her "mate" or my heavy drinking, party hard cousins, my divorced and remarried uncle, or anyone else.  I remind them that we are all sinners and we all make mistakes.  It is our job to try to reflect God's love to them and show that love in everything we do.  Of course, this necessitates an understanding that these people are more than their sins and we need to show that in our behavior.

In order to do this, I need to set up a narrative with my children in which they understand that our way of life is different from the rest of the world and that we choose to follow Christ.  I make sure that they know that our faith imbues everything we do and must be reflected in our choices.  Just because we see someone doesn't make their sin OK.  It makes them a child of God, with all the dignity that comes from such a gift of love, just like me.  I often say to my children, "I'm not proud of the choice you made, but I love you."  It's the same thing played out in a larger family paradigm.  

I think talking about these issues as children grow and their understanding of sin grows helps a lot.  We need to be frank (not overly explicit, just honest) and trust that God will shower our children with the grace they need.


Heavens!  This isn't easy.  Of course, it's not really meant to be . . .
(02-22-2018, 10:06 AM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2018, 12:26 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2018, 12:00 AM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-21-2018, 11:22 PM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]If that's the case, he better keep his son in solitary confinement if the mere presence of a sinner is to be interpreted as tacit approval of their sin.

Yeah that would be pretty crazy.  But then if you think about it, you only made that assertion up and claimed I said that.

In Melkite's defense, he never claimed you said that.

Still, his hyperbole is just plain silly.

It would be silly if Catholics regularly questioned whether they should keep their children away from other sinners in the same way.  They don't.

Granted, homosexual activity is not the same degree of seriousness as petty theft, but even with more serious sins, we don't see similar threads.

"My brother just brought his mistress home for Christmas, should I keep my kids away because they might interpret his presence as tacit approval?"

"My mother gambled away her life savings and is selling herself on craigslist to make ends meet, should I keep my kids away because they might interpret her presence as tacit approval?"

What's silly is that people don't have these concerns for their children until they find out their family member is a homosexual.

Melkite, you're entirely right ... except your implicit conclusion is wrong.

The problem is not that Catholics are asking about avoid homosexuals for the sake of their kids.

The problem is that they are not asking this about other sinners and bad influences. They should.
(02-21-2018, 06:38 PM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]My youngest brother is an extremely flamboyant, open homosexual.  He has basically all the accompanying personality traits; sarcastic, show-offy, argumentative, profane, passive-aggressive, etc. My wife and son and I will usually see him at my parents' house once a week for supper.  My son is almost 3 years old.

My brother even had a "boyfriend" up until about a year ago.  They were together for a while.  The guy he was with was probably even MORE obnoxious than my brother.   Thankfully he's no longer around.

My question: as my son gets to an age of understanding things a little better, should I do my best to keep him away from my brother?

On one hand, I want to be charitable to my brother to the extent possible (i.e. Treating him kindly, while not giving the appearance of being OK with his manner of life.). On the other hand, I want to keep my son away from any danger.  Thoughts?

Does your brother
I don't think
(02-22-2018, 03:35 PM)Ptochos Wrote: [ -> ]I would not leave the child alone with the brother for any length of time and absolutely never use him as a babysitter.

Just to note, that while this and similar comments have been previously made, actual evidence does not demonstrate that a perverse sexuality (a homosexual attraction) is in any way related to a different perverse sexuality (pedophilia). In short, there is zero evidence to suggest that a homosexual is more likely to sexually abuse a child, and the statistics show that most molestation is heterosexual.

That said, I would not want anyone who is living a seriously evil moral life around children, whatever the moral problem may be.

The objection is to making the implicit connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. There appears to be no such connection.
Amen, MM!
(02-22-2018, 04:11 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2018, 03:35 PM)Ptochos Wrote: [ -> ]I would not leave the child alone with the brother for any length of time and absolutely never use him as a babysitter.

Just to note, that while this and similar comments have been previously made, actual evidence does not demonstrate that a perverse sexuality (a homosexual attraction) is in any way related to a different perverse sexuality (pedophilia). In short, there is zero evidence to suggest that a homosexual is more likely to sexually abuse a child, and the statistics show that most molestation is heterosexual.

That said, I would not want anyone who is living a seriously evil moral life around children, whatever the moral problem may be.

The objection is to making the implicit connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. There appears to be no such connection.
Peace.....I suppose one has to consider the extended friendships of the homosexual relative and that they are not a danger either.  angeltime
(02-22-2018, 11:22 AM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-22-2018, 11:00 AM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]Wrong.  I'd have the same concerns about a family member marrying outside the Church (in fact I had a thread about this around Christmas), or a family member living in adultery.  Scandal is scandal.

You would consider not allowing your son to not see a family member merely because they married outside the Church?  Well, that's good, you are at least being consistent.

In my experience, the majority of people who have voiced similar concerns here over the years have only done so if homosexuality was the concerning issue.  They didn't see anything wrong with treating their homosexual family members differently than they did their fornicating, adultering, drunkard or apostatizing heterosexual family members.  Their reaction was quite hot when homosexuality was the issue, but their reaction over any of the others was lukewarm.

I kept my kids from my Dad who had affairs and divorced and "remarried" (annulment was denied) in the Church no less.  I guess he was one of the early versions of the "pastoral option" in 2004.

He constantly preached to everyone about Jesus love, and how he was taking communion to the sick, and teaching the children at his parish catechism...   :P

If he was not a practicing Catholic or didn't "preach" so much, things might have been different.

When I was young my Dad told me that when people sin, the problem is, they want everyone else to go along with it so they don't feel guilty about it.

Boy is that true!!!

In any case, please say a quick prayer for him, he has stage 4 cancer now. :(
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