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I have many friends who think that using artificial contraception is a responsible and smart choice when you can't afford to bring kids into the world. They say, why have kids if you're not going to be able to provide for them? It's selfish to have children if you can't take care of them.

To which the typical Catholic response is: "If you're not ready to have kids right away, you should not get married."

To which they then respond "If I wait until I'm financially stable to have kids, I'll be in my late 30s." And have a point they do, because in this day and age when there's student loans to pay and the average home is well in the 200k range, you've got to be either insane or have mob connections feeding you money to start banging out the babies before your wedding cake leftovers are eaten.

I don't know how to respond to my friends or to the doubts in my own heart.
(03-08-2018, 10:34 AM)SacraCor714 Wrote: [ -> ]I have many friends who think that using artificial contraception is a responsible and smart choice when you can't afford to bring kids into the world. They say, why have kids if you're not going to be able to provide for them? It's selfish to have children if you can't take care of them.

To which the typical Catholic response is: "If you're not ready to have kids right away, you should not get married."

To which they then respond "If I wait until I'm financially stable to have kids, I'll be in my late 30s." And have a point they do, because in this day and age when there's student loans to pay and the average home is well in the 200k range, you've got to be either insane or have mob connections feeding you money to start banging out the babies before your wedding cake leftovers are eaten.

I don't know how to respond to my friends or to the doubts in my own heart.

Our culture has unbelievably unreasonably high expectations for a "quality of life".

The poor in our country eat and live with conveniences that Kings and Queens did not have, such as air conditioning, fruit and every kind of food choice imaginable, daily showers, a different set of clothes for every day of the week plus more, entertainment of every kind, cars...etc.

It's so very hard because of peer pressure to understand, but many parents in days gone by would put their baby in a drawer rather than buy a big fancy crib with the latest style of bumper pads etc. etc.

It's very easy to get really nice baby things from thrift shops or ebay from folks who never even used or wore them.

Beyond that I would say, "Well, to each their own I guess."  Then have a different subject in your back pocket to bring up quickly!

Also, I wanted to mention that I worked at home taking calls for Pizza Hut to make a little extra money.  There are several companies that have operators and chat helpers work from home so you might want to look into that. ;)
Also, it's a hard topic to discuss, but many of those friends actually are bringing babies into the world.

They are just flushed down the toilet.  :(  (Not exactly responsible is it?  Not to mention the chemicals and devices which are extremely harmful to your body.  The Pill is a classified carcinogen with the World Health Organization and I've seen and heard of so many girls with extremely painful complications to the IUD.  Tell that to your vegan friends!)

I had a Protestant friend who was challenging me on this, and I was able to very delicately talk to her about how most contraceptives are abortifacient.  

She believed that life began at conception and her husband was a doctor so it was really an awakening to something she already knew on a certain level.

Well, thanks be to God she and her husband turned to NFP! :)

In any case, you will be in my prayers during my rosary today.
(03-08-2018, 10:34 AM)SacraCor714 Wrote: [ -> ]I have many friends who think that using artificial contraception is a responsible and smart choice when you can't afford to bring kids into the world. They say, why have kids if you're not going to be able to provide for them? It's selfish to have children if you can't take care of them.

To which the typical Catholic response is: "If you're not ready to have kids right away, you should not get married."

To which they then respond "If I wait until I'm financially stable to have kids, I'll be in my late 30s." And have a point they do, because in this day and age when there's student loans to pay and the average home is well in the 200k range, you've got to be either insane or have mob connections feeding you money to start banging out the babies before your wedding cake leftovers are eaten.

I don't know how to respond to my friends or to the doubts in my own heart.

Actually the simpler response is to point out the purpose of the marital act and marriage.

If the primary purpose of the act is pleasure or to show love and reproduction is secondary, then they can use it however they want.

If however the tables are reversed and the pleasure or expression of love is secondary and the reproductive purpose primary, then they cannot use the act however they want.

Nature alone shows that the latter is the primary purpose. People can have sex without any expression of love whatsoever, and even without much pleasure in some cases.

Get them to admit the natural purpose of the act is reproduction, and the other effects (an expression of mutual love and the pleasure attached are secondary), and then the logic follows.

Finally, at its root, there is nothing really and essentially different between contraception and abortion.

Most drug-based contraceptives are actually abortifacient, for instance. The pill, implants, IUDs and the like are all abortifacient and probably cause many abortions. Barrier methods clearly are no different than the sin of Onan.

But also the attitude that accepts contraception implicitly accepts the basis for abortion. Abortion is just slightly-more-than-morning-after contraception.

If the argument that the baby will be born into poverty and so it's fine to kill it is not morally acceptable, the attitude that says the baby will be born into poverty so we must disturb the natural order of the procreative act is also morally flawed.
When we were having our third or fourth, I was catching a lot of static. 'You can't afford another child', 'You Catholics breed like rabbits', and 'Don't you know what causes it?'! A very wise professor of mine said, 'Jovan, if people waited until they could afford children, no one would ever have them'.
One more thing to think about:  How do you define a friend?

I taught my kids that a friend is someone who helps you on your path to Heaven.

If they aren't helping you, or worse are bringing you down, they aren't really a friend.
On Judgement Day they can show Our Lord the SUV and 55 inch TV they had instead of children.
(03-08-2018, 03:29 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]When we were having our third or fourth, I was catching a lot of static. 'You can't afford another child', 'You Catholics breed like rabbits', and 'Don't you know what causes it?'!

The response to that last one is 'Yes, and we're very good at it.'
Does a responsible person give the bar tender the keys to their car and get totally plastered that they remember nothing or is the responsible person the one that doesn't get drunk in the first place using their limited time for more fruitful ventures? Most people use sex to self-medicate from the misery they choose like (as someone said above) their insanely high "quality of life" which revolves around the latest iPhone, 60" 4K UHD TV, BMW, gym membership at LA Fitness, girls night out, spa visit, etc. The list goes on but you get the idea. Of course if you phrase it that way to your friend you will probably get dissed as judgmental. If I were you I would simply say it takes the gift of faith and insight to see beyond the 30 second orgasm (at least for guys anyway).
(03-08-2018, 07:02 PM)Paul Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-08-2018, 03:29 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]When we were having our third or fourth, I was catching a lot of static. 'You can't afford another child', 'You Catholics breed like rabbits', and 'Don't you know what causes it?'!

The response to that last one is 'Yes, and we're very good at it.'

:LOL:
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