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So I wanted to hear people's thoughts on this issue.  Specifically I work in a hospital ER so we get tons of nursing home patients in the hospital.  Lot of these patients can not care for themselves and require staff to care for one of them.  One of the sad things we see a lot is older men who have no been circumcized and who can not care for themselves and clean themselves.  Obviously anyone who knows about a male being uncircumsized and proper cleaning and what that entails knows where I am going with this.  Some of these men look like they have not been cleaned for weeks.  It is horrible.  I can't believe some of the things I have seen.  Although what do you expect when these nursing homes pay staff extremely low salaries.  You definitely get what you pay for.  That's never going to change.  My issue is, I know a lot of people are against circumcision here but when these problems are not an rare but are the norm how can circumcision be argued against?  I know in an ideal world family takes care of you when you get old but what about the people who's family doesn't have the means to care for the person or the person who remained single and has no family to care for them.  Or even the person who's children die before them?

I would like to hear people's opinions on this and knowing what I know, how could I justify not getting future children circumcised when I know if they end up in a nursing home this will more than likely happen.  Its not like this is a rare thing we see, its a common thing.  Thoughts?
Those problems aren't "the norm," and an old man's penis is as easy to clean as his butt. If an old man is suffering from neglect, the State should be notified. We don't cut off fat women's breasts because they have to be lifted to be cleaned under (you've probably seen the smelly, seeping, painful yeast infections women can get under the breasts), and we shouldn't do that to babies' penises because they might grow up to be neglected old men some day.
(03-27-2018, 03:58 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: [ -> ]Those problems aren't "the norm," and an old man's penis is as easy to clean as his butt. If an old man is suffering from neglect, the State should be notified. We don't cut off fat women's breasts because they have to be lifted to be cleaned under (you've probably seen the smelly, seeping, painful yeast infections women can get under the breasts), and we shouldn't do that to babies' penises because they might grow up to be neglected old men some day.
And you know they are not the norm with nursing home patients how?  I work with these patients .  

I'm not arguing it's hard to clean, I'm arguing it doesn't get done at nursing homes.

Notifying the state does all of nothing.  Go look into state complaints against nursing homes and see what comes of them.  Usually nothing substantial.  Or when something serious is brought down on them some new owner buys the place, changes the name and the employees stay the same.  This happens all the time.  The problem is the public is in the dark of what actually goes on at nursing homes.  Although it will never likely change since the only way to change it is hire more qualified people which means more money is needed which means families pay more per month.  


It's not that they might grow up neglected old men at nursing homes, it's that they more than likely will be neglected if they are at a nursing home.  So the question is, can removing this to avoid future medical issues be ok?  What about the woman who is almost certain to get breast cancer.  Can she preemptively revoke her breasts or much she wait to get cancer and then hope to catch it and treat it in time?
An intact foreskin can harbor many bacteria, fungi and viruses if not properly and regularly cleaned. STDs are more frequently passed on to their partners. HIV infection rates are higher in men who may be exposed to the virus during sex. HPV virus us known to accumulate in an unclean foreskin area and the transfer of this virus to women is much more frequent in the uncircumcised.

In the case of STDs, in males, the place where the infectious agent resides is usually in the urethra in the circumcised male, but it is there and under the foreskin in the male with a foreskin. This make more agent available for transfer during sex and makes acquiring the STD as well as transmitting the STD more likely.

Perhaps this is why God told the Jews to perform this and made it a rite. In the same parts of the Old Testament, He passed on other items that are just good common Public Health, preventative measures which allowed them to thrive when the peoples around them were often ill...just an observation.
(03-27-2018, 04:52 PM)Zedta Wrote: [ -> ]STDs are more frequently passed on to their partners. HIV infection rates are higher in men who may be exposed to the virus during sex. HPV virus us known to accumulate in an unclean foreskin area and the transfer of this virus to women is much more frequent in the uncircumcised.

In the case of STDs, in males, the place where the infectious agent resides is usually in the urethra in the circumcised male, but it is there and under the foreskin in the male with a foreskin. This make more agent available for transfer during sex and makes acquiring the STD as well as transmitting the STD more likely.

These types of infection are not an issue if one is chaste and has sex only with their spouse.
Fun fact: Babies' foreskins are used in facial cream products.
(03-27-2018, 06:19 PM)For Petes Sake Wrote: [ -> ]Fun fact: Babies' foreskins are used in facial cream products.

I really hope this isn't true..

I can hear the convo now:

Q: what's good for skin?

A: foreskin 

Q: yeah

A: yeah?

Q: yeah what's good for skin

A: foreskin

Q: yeah

A: foreskin for skin

Q: yeah tell me whats good for skin

A: foreskin!!!  For skin?  Foreskin!!!

Q: yes!! Tell me what's good for skin!!
(03-27-2018, 02:44 PM)havok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]So I wanted to hear people's thoughts on this issue.  Specifically I work in a hospital ER so we get tons of nursing home patients in the hospital.  Lot of these patients can not care for themselves and require staff to care for one of them.  One of the sad things we see a lot is older men who have no been circumcized and who can not care for themselves and clean themselves.  Obviously anyone who knows about a male being uncircumsized and proper cleaning and what that entails knows where I am going with this.  Some of these men look like they have not been cleaned for weeks.  It is horrible.  I can't believe some of the things I have seen.  Although what do you expect when these nursing homes pay staff extremely low salaries.  You definitely get what you pay for.  That's never going to change.  My issue is, I know a lot of people are against circumcision here but when these problems are not an rare but are the norm how can circumcision be argued against?  I know in an ideal world family takes care of you when you get old but what about the people who's family doesn't have the means to care for the person or the person who remained single and has no family to care for them.  Or even the person who's children die before them?

I would like to hear people's opinions on this and knowing what I know, how could I justify not getting future children circumcised when I know if they end up in a nursing home this will more than likely happen.  Its not like this is a rare thing we see, its a common thing.  Thoughts?
Peace.....well, you covered a few topics of concern at once.  Some families just drop off their elderly relative because they are too busy with their own homes, children and careers and are hoping or believing the N. Home is doing the job.  (something like dropping children off at school and trusting the teacher is doing the job) The Healthcare System has gone down and it is all about 9-5 and give me my paycheck.  This does not apply to everyone, everywhere but seems to be the norm as you stated.  I think family doctors need to be clued in to this increase of lack of care for the elderly and in this case risk of disease and infection for uncircumcised elderly.  A very unpleasant odor goes along with this problem too.  If the workorder so to speak, isn't presented to the nursing staff, they will get away with it.  I for one with many good reasons believe in having the circumcision done - not necessarily related to the Jewish faith, but for health purposes and cleanliness!  God bless, angeltime :heart:
(03-27-2018, 07:13 PM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-27-2018, 06:19 PM)For Petes Sake Wrote: [ -> ]Fun fact: Babies' foreskins are used in facial cream products.

I really hope this isn't true..

I can hear the convo now:

Q: what's good for skin?

A: foreskin 

Q: yeah

A: yeah?

Q: yeah what's good for skin

A: foreskin

Q: yeah

A: foreskin for skin

Q: yeah tell me whats good for skin

A: foreskin!!!  For skin?  Foreskin!!!

Q: yes!! Tell me what's good for skin!!

Endorsed by Oprah!
(03-27-2018, 04:35 PM)havok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]And you know they are not the norm with nursing home patients how?  I work with these patients .  

I'm not arguing it's hard to clean, I'm arguing it doesn't get done at nursing homes.

Notifying the state does all of nothing.  Go look into state complaints against nursing homes and see what comes of them.  Usually nothing substantial.  Or when something serious is brought down on them some new owner buys the place, changes the name and the employees stay the same.  This happens all the time.  The problem is the public is in the dark of what actually goes on at nursing homes.  Although it will never likely change since the only way to change it is hire more qualified people which means more money is needed which means families pay more per month.  

It's not that they might grow up neglected old men at nursing homes, it's that they more than likely will be neglected if they are at a nursing home.  So the question is, can removing this to avoid future medical issues be ok?  What about the woman who is almost certain to get breast cancer.  Can she preemptively revoke her breasts or much she wait to get cancer and then hope to catch it and treat it in time?

The norm for people who can't care for themselves isn't "the norm." Your equating "the norm" for an ill sub-set of the population with "the norm" without qualification makes no sense. It's like working in a prison and calling it "the norm" to have prison pallor. And your solution to the problem you're seeing in nursing homes is akin to asking whether or not we should cut off young women's breasts because many older women get under-breast yeast infections and aren't able to treat it themselves. Makes no sense. 

If your question about circumcision was about a particular patient who has medical issues, then that's a different thing, a medical question, not a moral one (circumcision is always allowed in individual cases for medical reasons), but to mangle baby boys' genitals because they might end up in a badly-run nursing home when they're old is sort of sick.
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