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Full Version: What is the relationship like between FSSP and SSPX?
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For a layman trying to do the right thing, it frustrating to no end to try to figure out the right course of action during this unprecedented time, the very worst time in all of Church history, bar none.  I have frequented SSPX masses and have no problem doing so. My main concern is receiving unquestionably valid sacraments.  People alleging that merely receiving the sacraments from a priest means agreeing with every position he holds makes it almost impossible to go anywhere, and I don't think was an absolute requirement from every Catholic in history.

As noted earlier, the SSPX, even if less hard line now, was from the the FSSP's inception unambiguously against anyone attending their masses or supporting them.

However, the real difference is that Archbishop Lefebvre absolutely insisted on independence from the modernist bishops. In this the Fraternity has totally failed. They depend upon a Novus Ordo commission (Ecclesia Dei), whose members are not traditional Catholics; they have to this day absolutely no bishops of their own, and receive the sacrament of Holy Orders from bishops ordained themselves in the new rites, and who do not hesitate to celebrate the New Mass; they are obliged to share altars with the New Mass, and to operate within the structure of the conciliar parishes. Either they agree with the post-conciliar liturgy, laws and practices, or they are hypocritical by their cooperation. Whatever the case be, it is clear that they have compromised with the revolution in the Church.

Occasionally we are asked what a traditional Catholic must do if the only traditional Mass he can attend is one celebrated by a Fraternity priest. Our answer remains exactly the same as Archbishop Lefebvre’s answer with respect to the Indult Masses, celebrated by priests who also celebrate the New Mass. To participate in such Masses is to accept the compromise upon which they are based; it is to co-operate with the destruction of the Church either by accepting it or by hypocritical silence. It is to refuse the full profession of Catholic Faith which the uncompromising practice of Tradition is. It is to say that one “prefers” the traditional Mass but that the New Mass and the errors of Vatican II need not be publicly condemned in order to protect the Faith. No person is obliged to attend such a Mass, even if it is the only way to satisfy one’s Sunday obligation. To the contrary, it would be manifestly wrong for a person who understands their compromise to do so. The Archbishop presents and answers the objection very clearly: “‘After all, we must be charitable, we must be kind, we must not be divisive, after all, they are celebrating the Tridentine Mass, they are not as bad as everyone says’–but they are betraying us! They are shaking hands with the Church’s destroyers, with people holding modernist and liberal ideas condemned by the Church. So they are doing the devil’s work.” (Sept. 6, 1990)

http://sspx.org/sites/sspx/files/USA-Dis...febvre.pdf

I suspect that beyond the compromise of the FSSP, as perceived by the SSPX, is the uneasiness about the FSSP's priests new rite ordinations.  Officially the SSPX will not say they are invalid, but I think there is some doubt there.  

Contrariwise, depending on priest of the FSSP or like groups like the ICKSP, attending the SSPX's masses and supporting them makes one a schismatic.

Every group seems to be super confident of their position and damns the other group, leaving the layman trying to be objective of the whole thing at a complete loss, disheartened and demoralized.

Meanwhile those in the Novus Ordo are blissfully ignorant of all these problems they may or may not be accomplices to.
I have known 3 FSSP priests well, and I have spoken to 2 SSPX priests, just once.

Of the 3 FSSP priests, 1 was respectfully against, 1 was quite nice and invites the SSPX priest to chat sometimes, and 1 sees them as almost the same. For him, the SSPX churches are simply like other parishes. None of the FSSP priests 'attacked' the SSPX.

The SSPX priests were perfectly comfortable with the notion that I attended an FSSP Mass. Had zero negative to say, and, if anything, seemed positive.

I suspect that there is a great deal of variety in both organizations in this matter. I also suspect that the laity are more likely to be staunchly one way or the other. My experiences with the 5 priests suggest that for the actual, priestly members, it's really no biggie.

One side has bishops but no acceptance or foot-in-the-door, so to speak. The other has no bishops but is generally well accepted and has a presence in the Church structures.

In the end, I think the priests themselves know that none of this stuff matters all that much now. These are just 2 different brigades on the same side in the same war. When the war is over, there will be no problem.
I think the Fssp is used as a proxy to weaken the SSPX. I don't think the Fssp will ever be able to change things by following the rules modernists have for them. I guess I'm a hypocrite though because I attend a NO church.
(04-02-2018, 12:18 AM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't Michael Matt and his family go through the FSSP/SSPX dilemma?

I wonder if the Remnant would be of any help for reconciling the differences.

I agree with the protests by the SSPX, and maybe even the SSPV but because I'm homebound I don't have a lot of options.

Thanks for the rec.  This video was very helpful

(04-01-2018, 10:39 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]I realize this is a broad question.  Whether in terms of the clergy or the Catholics who attend their Masses: Do they generally get along or is there bad blood?  I see SSPX comment on FSSP occassionally, but I don't think I've seen much of FSSP's thoughts on SSPX.  It seems like with the Holy See giving permanent canonical recognition to SSPX of the only sacraments in question, the differences are so minimal as to be nonexistent.  But I don't know what people in real life think because I just don't have the exposure.

It's complicated.
Remember the good ol' days.
When we were taught that Mass was the same, all the world over.
That a person traveling in a new country would find the Mass to be essentially the same.
.
I have to go to the local NO, but it really feels like I am punching the time clock - in by 10, out by 11, try to think good thoughts, listen to a very nice homily.  At least we don't have dancing.
(04-02-2018, 10:40 PM)MaryTN Wrote: [ -> ]Remember the good ol' days.
When we were taught that Mass was the same, all the world over.
That a person traveling in a new country would find the Mass to be essentially the same.
.
I have to go to the local NO, but it really feels like I am punching the time clock - in by 10, out by 11, try to think good thoughts, listen to a very nice homily.  At least we don't have dancing.

>that feeling when you walk into a church for the first time with high hopes
>and there's a drum kit by the tabernacle 

[Image: f1e.png]
(04-02-2018, 05:57 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-02-2018, 12:18 AM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't Michael Matt and his family go through the FSSP/SSPX dilemma?

I wonder if the Remnant would be of any help for reconciling the differences.

I agree with the protests by the SSPX, and maybe even the SSPV but because I'm homebound I don't have a lot of options.

Thanks for the rec.  This video was very helpful


Yeah, I really like Michael Matt and especially his new "Catechomb" set on other videos. :)

I totally agree with him that the FSSP, ICK etc., are serving a special need for evangelizing NO Catholics to the Traditional Mass.  

I would have been one of those he points out would not be able to make the leap to the SSPX when I first started attending with the FSSP.  

It was very important to me at the time that they were "in line with the Pope" and not one of those "fringe groups" outside the Church.

At this point, they are all serving the same goal of striving to hold fast to tradition and make saints in the midst of a messy situation.  

It ain't gonna be perfect any way you slice it, but I'm very grateful for what we've got!
As someone who doesn't actually go to the SSPX (his family goes to FSSP), Michael Matt is very sympathetic to them, unlike many others. I think his stance is more in line with most people here, who even if they don't or have never been to an SSPX chapel, they still are sympathetic to their cause and certainly don't cast them off as schismatics or any of the other nonsense that the likes of others do.
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