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I really didn't intend to post here anymore, but I need some rather specific help and I have very few places to turn in regards to traditionalism.  So it looks like I'm back for at least this thread.

I've begun to attend an FSSP parish.  It's been pretty good.  So after starting to become a slightly familiar face, especially with the priest, I sat down for a meeting with him.  It was... interesting to say the least.  I pretty much laid out everything about myself and my beliefs and ideas.  His assessment of me was: I am someone with a "big heart" (?), an "intellect far superior" to his own (!), and I potentially have a lot to contribute to the parish.  He also thinks I'm extremely willful and I don't have a single obedient bone in my body.  He literally went so far as to say that I have the combination of knowledge, eloquence (I think?), and charisma to lead parishioners away from the Church to something like SSPX - if I were inclined to do so.

Thus, he wants to make sure that I am firmly in his camp.  He wants me to be an "FSSP guy."  He has charged me with reading as much as I can to become fully convinced of the FSSP position on... like Church stuff I guess.  I don't really know where to start.  There's so much readily accessibly SSPX reading, but FSSP seems more reticent about their specific policies.  

What I need are things like blogs, articles, books, websites - anything that delineates apologetics specifically related to FSSP, and particularly in opposition to SSPX.  The question I need to answer to the priest is: Why do I want to attend an FSSP parish instead of an SSPX (or whatever) one?  

My ability to eventually register at the parish is contingent upon this.  I will be meeting with the priest approximately monthly for what he calls "oil checks."  He assures me that he will be able to tell if I am truly "converted" to FSSP in my heart.  So like... I want to give said conversion my best shot.
(04-16-2018, 09:49 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]I really didn't intend to post here anymore, but I need some rather specific help and I have very few places to turn in regards to traditionalism.  So it looks like I'm back for at least this thread.

I've begun to attend an FSSP parish.  It's been pretty good.  So after starting to become a slightly familiar face, especially with the priest, I sat down for a meeting with him.  It was... interesting to say the least.  I pretty much laid out everything about myself and my beliefs and ideas.  His assessment of me was: I am someone with a "big heart" (?), an "intellect far superior" to his own (!), and I potentially have a lot to contribute to the parish.  He also thinks I'm extremely willful and I don't have a single obedient bone in my body.  He literally went so far as to say that I have the combination of knowledge, eloquence (I think?), and charisma to lead parishioners away from the Church to something like SSPX - if I were inclined to do so.

Thus, he wants to make sure that I am firmly in his camp.  He wants me to be an "FSSP guy."  He has charged me with reading as much as I can to become fully convinced of the FSSP position on... like Church stuff I guess.  I don't really know where to start.  There's so much readily accessibly SSPX reading, but FSSP seems more reticent about their specific policies.  

What I need are things like blogs, articles, books, websites - anything that delineates apologetics specifically related to FSSP, and particularly in opposition to SSPX.  The question I need to answer to the priest is: Why do I want to attend an FSSP parish instead of an SSPX (or whatever) one?  

My ability to eventually register at the parish is contingent upon this.  I will be meeting with the priest approximately monthly for what he calls "oil checks."  He assures me that he will be able to tell if I am truly "converted" to FSSP in my heart.  So like... I want to give said conversion my best shot.

If anyone needed to make the SSPX's case for them as to why they are so wary of recommending the FSSP ...
This is a very bizarre story.  I think I can truthfully say that the priests at my FSSP parish would not care about you being an “FSSP guy” (whatever that means) as long as you were a “Catholic guy.”  As for the “FSSP position,” again, the priests I know would be content with you having the “Catholic position” on any given subject.  I will not ask, but I would be curious to know where your parish is.  I have gotten the impression from my priests that there are differing cultures and attitudes between the two FSSP seminaries (Wigratzbad and Denton).
Quote:If anyone needed to make the SSPX's case for them as to why they are so wary of recommending the FSSP ...

Do think some in the SSPX would be concerned that someone was not fully on board and might recruit for the FSSP?
(04-16-2018, 09:49 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]I really didn't intend to post here anymore, but I need some rather specific help and I have very few places to turn in regards to traditionalism.  So it looks like I'm back for at least this thread.

I've begun to attend an FSSP parish.  It's been pretty good.  So after starting to become a slightly familiar face, especially with the priest, I sat down for a meeting with him.  It was... interesting to say the least.  I pretty much laid out everything about myself and my beliefs and ideas.  His assessment of me was: I am someone with a "big heart" (?), an "intellect far superior" to his own (!), and I potentially have a lot to contribute to the parish.  He also thinks I'm extremely willful and I don't have a single obedient bone in my body.  He literally went so far as to say that I have the combination of knowledge, eloquence (I think?), and charisma to lead parishioners away from the Church to something like SSPX - if I were inclined to do so.

Thus, he wants to make sure that I am firmly in his camp.  He wants me to be an "FSSP guy."  He has charged me with reading as much as I can to become fully convinced of the FSSP position on... like Church stuff I guess.  I don't really know where to start.  There's so much readily accessibly SSPX reading, but FSSP seems more reticent about their specific policies.  

What I need are things like blogs, articles, books, websites - anything that delineates apologetics specifically related to FSSP, and particularly in opposition to SSPX.  The question I need to answer to the priest is: Why do I want to attend an FSSP parish instead of an SSPX (or whatever) one?  

My ability to eventually register at the parish is contingent upon this.  I will be meeting with the priest approximately monthly for what he calls "oil checks."  He assures me that he will be able to tell if I am truly "converted" to FSSP in my heart.  So like... I want to give said conversion my best shot.

This is most unusual.

Did he give you any suggestions on what to read?
I'm a bit surprised by your post as well. I've spent the last ten years or so shifting from FSSP parish to SSPX parish depending on where I was located and I've never encountered a priest from either group that demanded a "vetting" of sorts before registering at the parish. To be fair, I've also never met with a priest and laid out my position in regards to the Church's present crises. I'm there chiefly for mass and confession. It might be too late for this, but you might want to stress at your next "oil check" that your goal in being at the parish is to advance in holiness and despite any strong opinions you might possess you'd like to set them aside for the time being and focus on your interior life.

 My guess is the priest isn't really worried about your positions so much as he is worried about how you'll behave at the parish and whether or not you'll "under cut" his authority by nitpicking at his preaching etc. That's not to say you'd do that on purpose, but I once caused a problem in a N.O. parish by aggressively debating a particular woman on an issue while assuring her that who ever had told her she was right was either stupid or lying. As it turns our the person who had told her she was "right" was the parish priest. As you can imagine proving that the parish priest was wrong about a given issue in front of other parishioners was kind of an issue. 

Just try and remind yourself that you aren't there to save the Church. The Church is there to save you. You don't have to burden yourself with having to correct every incorrect thing you come across in conversation at the parish hall.
If I may ask ICT, is the priest you met with Fr Wolfe?

I personally know many FSSP priests and many SSPX priests.

I know of no SSPX priest who would deny someone access to the "parish" until they prove they are not anti-FSSP, even if they have publicly shared negative comments about the FSSP.

Likewise, I know of no FSSP priest who would do the same toward those who came from the SSPX.

I have heard through some of those FSSP priests, however, of some of their brethren who have become anti-SSPX zealots, and one of those is Fr Wolfe, whose turn that direction and his influence has been documented.
(04-17-2018, 12:35 AM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: [ -> ]This is most unusual.

Did he give you any suggestions on what to read?

No, unfortunately.  And I don't really know where to look.  The FSSP seems to keep their head down and not say much, so I'm not sure where he wants me to go.  

(04-17-2018, 12:37 AM)MeanGene Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a bit surprised by your post as well. I've spent the last ten years or so shifting from FSSP parish to SSPX parish depending on where I was located and I've never encountered a priest from either group that demanded a "vetting" of sorts before registering at the parish. To be fair, I've also never met with a priest and laid out my position in regards to the Church's present crises. I'm there chiefly for mass and confession. It might be too late for this, but you might want to stress at your next "oil check" that your goal in being at the parish is to advance in holiness and despite any strong opinions you might possess you'd like to set them aside for the time being and focus on your interior life.

 My guess is the priest isn't really worried about your positions so much as he is worried about how you'll behave at the parish and whether or not you'll "under cut" his authority by nitpicking at his preaching etc. That's not to say you'd do that on purpose, but I once caused a problem in a N.O. parish by aggressively debating a particular woman on an issue while assuring her that who ever had told her she was right was either stupid or lying. As it turns our the person who had told her she was "right" was the parish priest. As you can imagine proving that the parish priest was wrong about a given issue in front of other parishioners was kind of an issue. 

Just try and remind yourself that you aren't there to save the Church. The Church is there to save you. You don't have to burden yourself with having to correct every incorrect thing you come across in conversation at the parish hall.

I don't think I came across in the way you're describing; at least, I didn't intend to.  My intention in meeting him wasn't even to talk about any of this Church crisis crap.  I'm really trying not to care about it, actually.  When I mentioned I went to an SSPX mission, I tempered it by saying that I don't agree on their position on the FSSP and that I understand and respect the Fraternity and actively want to be more fully integrated into the Church.  I also addressed *specifically* and explicitly the point about how I'd behave in the parish by saying, word for word, this: "I understand that in your position, it would cause you a lot of trouble to register me if I then went around talking about the SSPX and badmouthing the archbishop.  That isn't why I'm here, and if it was, I'd go back to an SSPX mission.  I discerned the priesthood in this diocese and I've worked in politics.  I wouldn't do something like that even if I felt I should because I'm very capable of understanding the delicate politics of a traditionalist parish in a liberal diocese."

In fact, it's the opposite of what you said.  He accepted, but ultimately brushed off concerns about how I'd behave.  He wants an internal conversion fully and completely.  I'll try to transcribe what he said to me about this: "I'm a simple parish priest, and the people here don't think about the things you're talking about.  I don't even talk to them about it.  They might have their issues with the Pope, but they don't read Canon Law.  You talk about the Church like priests talk about it.  Even if you don't mean to, you could lead people away... [later] ... Since you have this intelligence and this way with words, that's how I need you to approach our conversations.  You need to make the perfect argument for why you'd attend an FSSP church even if an SSPX one was right across the street.  It has to convince me, but I also need to know it convinces you.  Trust me, I can sniff out a rat a mile away."

He actually said that lol.  Hold on.  I'm getting an idea for a novel.

(04-17-2018, 01:12 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]If I may ask ICT, is the priest you met with Fr Wolfe?

I personally know many FSSP priests and many SSPX priests.

I know of no SSPX priest who would deny someone access to the "parish" until they prove they are not anti-FSSP, even if they have publicly shared negative comments about the FSSP.

Likewise, I know of no FSSP priest who would do the same toward those who came from the SSPX.

I have heard through some of those FSSP priests, however, of some of their brethren who have become anti-SSPX zealots, and one of those is Fr Wolfe, whose turn that direction and his influence has been documented.

It wasn't Fr. Wolfe, but it does sound like him.  I had a similar experience with the SSPX to what you're describing. They were very welcoming and didn't have these kinds of concerns/hang-ups.  The conversation caught me very off-guard.  I have trouble getting a read on this priest from the one conversation, but my suspicion is that he's either a) a zealot, or b) under a lot of pressure from the archbishop to make sure that the parish is traditional without causing any trouble or being too "radical".  It may be a combination of both; he talked about how SSPX people would throw rocks at FSSP churches and get violent with them.  But on the other hand, I wouldn't underestimate just how delicate the political situation in the diocese is.  I believe the FSSP would get kicked out at the first sign of any "wrongthink".
(04-17-2018, 12:03 AM)Publicanus Wrote: [ -> ]This is a very bizarre story.  I think I can truthfully say that the priests at my FSSP parish would not care about you being an “FSSP guy” (whatever that means) as long as you were a “Catholic guy.”  As for the “FSSP position,” again, the priests I know would be content with you having the “Catholic position” on any given subject.

I was hoping that would be his position, but he's really forcing me to go forward without any sort of hang-up whatsoever.  I'm happy to do it (provided I can find the case somewhere online as to why... I still haven't even after researching it a bit), but this is my last foray into the concept of Catholic obedience (however broadly or oddly defined it may be).  If I become a good little "FSSP guy" like he wants, only to get burned or scandalized again in any way, then that's it.  I'm leaving the Church for good.  I'll go Orthodox.  That's the honest truth.  

So this leap of faith he wants me to take... it's a big gambit on his part.  He needs to make good on the promise of a firm, traditional life in the parish without any of the milquetoast liberal crap I see a couple blocks away at the N.O. parish.  In return I can even donate to the Archbishop's appeal, since he was hung up on that so badly.  I know it goes to communist "social justice" workshops though.
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