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I've been following this scary medical case which is reaching a very desperate time. Lifesite News is giving regular updates https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/death-...ve-updates
Member of Parliament trying to save Alfie Evans' life
New video of Alfie Evans on ‘execution’ day shows lively and alert toddler
                                  https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-vi...-scheduled

                                  Italy has granted Alfie Evans citizenship so he can be taken there for treatment, but it remains if the UK's government will allow him to leave.
Italy has announced that if Alfie dies they will file charges in the European Courts that Britain murdered an Italian citizen!

[Image: 2018-04-23.png]
I've been following this case. Here are some points I think need to be made

1) Have any of the Italian physicians examined the child? If not, on what basis did they make their offer of treatment? From articles I've read, it seems like even the physicians in Rome have said there is no hope for a cure. All they'd be able to do is give him hydration and help him breathe. So just keep him on life support. I don't see the point. Why would they even make the offer?

2) Have the parents found any physician to dispute the statement that he has lost almost all brain function? With the sorts of investigative tools they have now, mistakes are extremely unlikely. In the Terri Schiavo case, the parents appear to have been duplicitous in claiming to see evidence of revived consciousness. That sounds like what is happening in this case.

3) Who would pay for continued treatment? If it is UK tax-pyayers, they don’t have a leg to stand on. This is the natural consequence of all socialized medical systems. My understanding is that Bambino Gesù, a hospital with an excellent reputation, has agreed to treat Alfie at its own expense, but if the hospital concedes the point in this case, the entire UK medical system could be held hostage.

4) On what moral or religious basis are the parents making the claim? I know they sought help from Pope Francis and the father quotes the Commandment against murder, but they do not appear to have taken the trouble to get married, which raises serious doubts about their Christian convictions. If they are not practicing members of a religious tradition that condemns abortion, what is their justification? I hate to consider this, but this could be simply a fund-raising opportunity.

I feel sympathy for any parents caught in a situation like this, but their case, such as I have seen, rests on no serious scientific or moral argument. The Pope who condemned the termination of treatment for Mrs. Schiavo, ordered exactly the same thing for himself, when the time came. The obsession with mere existence—as opposed to an authentic life in this world and an eternal life in the next—is the obsession of our Neo-Egyptian cult of modernity, and I do not think Catholics should have anything to do with if the child dies, he will be with God eternally. The parents should have nothing to fear.
(04-23-2018, 08:46 PM)JEvolian18 Wrote: [ -> ]I feel sympathy for any parents caught in a situation like this, but their case, such as I have seen, rests on no serious scientific or moral argument.  The Pope who condemned the termination of treatment for Mrs. Schiavo, ordered exactly the same thing for himself, when the time came.  The obsession with mere existence—as opposed to an authentic life in this world and an eternal life in the next—is the obsession of our Neo-Egyptian cult of modernity, and I do not think Catholics should have anything to do with  if the child dies, he will be with God eternally. The parents should have nothing to fear.

There's something to that, but the real issue isn't whether Alfie lives or dies, especially since he's an infant and baptised. The issue is who gets to make that decision: the parents, or the state? Is it child abuse to keep Alfie alive, or to pursue treatment even when it's likely useless? Or is it that the NHS simply don't want to pay for it? I think it's a stretch to say it's abuse, and if it isn't, decisions about the child belong to the parents, not the state. What happens when your five-year-old is in hospital for something and tells the doctor that he's really a girl, and the parents, who see this for the ridiculousness this is, tell him he's not and the nurse overhears them? Or a pregnant teenager who wants to keep her child, and so do her parents, but the doctors (since a baby will ruin the girl's life, you know) force an abortion? And maybe in the next case there's some sort of experimental treatment that will likely not work, but even if it doesn't, we'll learn from it and maybe eventually it will. Not that we simply experiment on people, but that sort of thing is how medicine advances.

The idea that the state controls your children, even having the power of life and death over them, is deeply disturbing, and that's what's so wrong about the Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans cases.
Quote:JEvolian18 Wrote
In the Terri Schiavo case, the parents appear to have been duplicitous in claiming to see evidence of revived consciousness. 


Terri Schiavo was not on a breathing machine.  All she needed was food and water and food and water are basic necessities due to any living human being no matter the status of brain activity or "quality of life".

Human beings do not need to pass an IQ test or obstacle course to be valued enough for food and water.  They are valued because they are human and are alive.

Giving Terri Schiavo food and water through a tube is no different from giving a baby food and water via a bottle.

A breathing machine may be considered extraordinary means.  It is my understanding that it is not necessary for Catholics to continue to extend life by such means, while food and water are ordinary means that are obligatory for every human.

Terry Schiavo was starved to death which is very different from being allowed to die naturally after taken off a ventilator but still given food and water.

"I was hungry and you gave me no food.  I was thirsty and you gave me no drink."  Jesus Christ
(04-23-2018, 08:46 PM)JEvolian18 Wrote: [ -> ]4) On what moral or religious basis are the parents making the claim?  I know they sought help from Pope Francis and the father quotes the Commandment against murder, but they do not appear to have taken the trouble to get married, which raises serious doubts about their Christian convictions.  If they are not practicing members of a religious tradition that condemns abortion, what is their justification?  I hate to consider this, but this could be simply a fund-raising opportunity.

What do abortion or the depths of the parents' religious convictions have to do with anything?
(04-23-2018, 10:54 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: [ -> ]Terry Schiavo was starved to death which is very different from being allowed to die naturally after taken off a ventilator but still given food and water.

Terri Schiavo was murdered by her husband because he wanted to be free to marry his mistress.
“He’s now on oxygen,” Alfie’s father Tom told reporters in a press conference outside Alder Hey hospital shortly before 7:00 this morning. Tom said that the “doctors are gobsmacked” that Alfie continues to live.

The child has also been permitted water.

BREAKING: Alfie Evans has survived 13 hours without ventilation, doctors ‘gobsmacked’ https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaki...entilation
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