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Father Hess,  theologian, was tasked by Pope Benedict, XVI to determine if the Novus Ordo Mass was valid or not.  He determined it was not as the words of consecration had changed the meaning.  That is when  Pope Benedict changed the words of consecration back.  Father Hess also declared it has serious problems, such as communion in the hand (crumbs fall all over and are trampled), etc.

https://spideroak.com/browse/share/Hesse...mastered)/

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...ather+Hess

There is a red herring discussion regarding the anointing with oil of the thumb and forefinger versus the laying on of hands by the bishop, but the former is a designation (i.e., priest, bishop, etc.).  The latter is the anointing (not with oil) that confers the priesthood.  Protestants do not have the anointing (laying on of hands) from a Catholic bishop, so their communion services are only memorial services.  Sacred Catholic Tradition preserves the rituals that Jesus Himself instituted.  
Archbishop Lefebvre said that the Novus Ordo is valid.
A priest from the Novus Ordo who wants to join the SSPX doesn't have to be ordained again.
(04-28-2018, 12:34 AM)Poche Wrote: [ -> ]Archbishop Lefebvre said that the Novus Ordo is valid.
A priest from the Novus Ordo who wants to join the SSPX doesn't have to be ordained again.

Archbishop Lefebvre strove to preserve the Traditional Latin Mass and the Traditional Catholic faith.  He also strove to preserve the Apostolic anointing of priest, as the laying on of hands was not being incorporated into the new ordination ceremony.  Pope Benedict dealt with that also.
(04-28-2018, 12:26 PM)Maryrose Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-28-2018, 12:34 AM)Poche Wrote: [ -> ]Archbishop Lefebvre said that the Novus Ordo is valid.
A priest from the Novus Ordo who wants to join the SSPX doesn't have to be ordained again.

Archbishop Lefebvre strove to preserve the Traditional Latin Mass and the Traditional Catholic faith.  He also strove to preserve the Apostolic anointing of priest, as the laying on of hands was not being incorporated into the new ordination ceremony.  Pope Benedict dealt with that also.

"Anointing" in the ordination ritual is not a necessary element. It is a sacramental and a symbol of the priestly power to bless.

The imposition of hands is the matter of priestly Ordination. It is so closely associated with Ordination that it survives in schismatic sects with valid orders (like the Orthodox), but also in sects which do not. Nearly every Protestant sects which ordains pastors has "the laying on of hands" as an integral part of the ceremony.

The Novus Ordo rite of Ordination, for all its flaws, never omitted, nor was ever at risk for omitting this. If ecumenism was the purpose of the "reformers" then clearly they would not have removed the near-universal symbol.

If you think Archbishop Lefebvre was fighting to keep the laying on of hands in the rite of Ordination you have a very myopic view of his fight and his life.
The anointing is caused by the laying on of hands.  That is what was "updated" out of the new rite.  There is form and substance, and either one will invalidate.  Of course, the Protestants can lay on of hands, but they are outside the church and will NOT pass on the priestly anointing by laying on of hands.  

Archbishop Lefebvre sought to preserve the Traditional Catholic faith in it entirety, so that it would not be changed by novelty and heresy of Vatican II.
The anointing is caused by the laying on of hands.  That is what was "updated" out of the new rite.  There is form and substance, and either one will invalidate.  Of course, the Protestants can lay on of hands, but they are outside the church and will NOT pass on the priestly anointing by laying on of hands.  

Archbishop Lefebvre sought to preserve the Traditional Catholic faith in it entirety, so that it would not be changed by novelty and heresy of Vatican II.
(04-30-2018, 03:02 PM)Maryrose Wrote: [ -> ]The anointing is caused by the laying on of hands.  

No, they are two separate parts of the ceremony and separated by quite a bit, including the Veni Creator. Here is the traditional rite:  Ordination of Priests
(04-30-2018, 03:30 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2018, 03:02 PM)Maryrose Wrote: [ -> ]The anointing is caused by the laying on of hands.  

No, they are two separate parts of the ceremony and separated by quite a bit, including the Veni Creator. Here is the traditional rite:  Ordination of Priests

A quote from that link says:

"When the litany is ended the candidates rise and go in pairs to kneel before the bishop. The bishop places both his hands on the head of each candidate in turn, without saying anything. This very simple though impressive action, unaccompanied by prayer or chant, is called the essential matter of the sacrament. It signifies that the power of priesthood is conferred by the bishop imposing hands on the candidate, transmitting to the latter the power which the bishop himself has received from Christ through the apostles and their successors.

The anointing of the priesthood is transferred by the laying on of hands.  It is the "essential matter of the sacrament."  It was conferred on the Apostles by Jesus.  The Apostles conferred it upon other priests and bishops who conferred it until the present day.  Protestants can lay hands on people, but they are a broken chain and do not have the anointing from Jesus.
(04-30-2018, 03:02 PM)Maryrose Wrote: [ -> ]The anointing is caused by the laying on of hands.  That is what was "updated" out of the new rite.  There is form and substance, and either one will invalidate.  Of course, the Protestants can lay on of hands, but they are outside the church and will NOT pass on the priestly anointing by laying on of hands.  

Archbishop Lefebvre sought to preserve the Traditional Catholic faith in it entirety, so that it would not be changed by novelty and heresy of Vatican II.

This is a Novus Ordo ordination by Pope Francis :

[Image: blog_1463898383.jpg]

Q.E.D.
The spiritual anointing of the priesthood is indeed caused by the laying on of the hands but that's not the same thing as the physical anointing with oil which is not essential.
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