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So I was wondering, is it a sin for a couple to voluntarily not have sex to avoid another pregnancy?  Now I'm not talking about NFP.  I understand that part.  I also understand couples who give up sex and live chastily for God.  What I am wondering about, out of curiosity is, is a couple committing a sin if they choose to not have sex with the sole intent to not get pregnant again.  Let's say they already have a few kids and don't want anymore.  Not an instance they need to avoid having more kids, they just feel they don't want more right now.  Obviously NFP is a no go in this instance.  Understand that.  Although what about a couple who decides to not have sex so they don't get pregnant anymore.  Are they committing a sin?  Are they having a contraceptive mentality or does that not apply since they are not having sex?  Thoughts?
I think it would only be sinful if it leads one of the spouses to commit other sins against chastity and then one of the spouses refuses the other because of their desire not to have another child.

Of course there's also the question of age and where after a certain age there are many more risks of pregnancy to both the mother and child.
(04-30-2018, 03:24 PM)havok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]So I was wondering, is it a sin for a couple to voluntarily not have sex to avoid another pregnancy?  Now I'm not talking about NFP.  I understand that part.  I also understand couples who give up sex and live chastily for God.  What I am wondering about, out of curiosity is, is a couple committing a sin if they choose to not have sex with the sole intent to not get pregnant again.  Let's say they already have a few kids and don't want anymore.  Not an instance they need to avoid having more kids, they just feel they don't want more right now.  Obviously NFP is a no go in this instance.  Understand that.  Although what about a couple who decides to not have sex so they don't get pregnant anymore.  Are they committing a sin?  Are they having a contraceptive mentality or does that not apply since they are not having sex?  Thoughts?
Peace.....I don't know anything about this, but thought that it should just be considered "abstaining" - not a sin.  (?)  God bless, angeltime :heart:
(04-30-2018, 03:28 PM)GangGreen Wrote: [ -> ]I think it would only be sinful if it leads one of the spouses to commit other sins against chastity and then one of the spouses refuses the other because of their desire not to have another child.

Of course there's also the question of age and where after a certain age there are many more risks of pregnancy to both the mother and child.

and I am specifically wanting to avoid risks to the mother or age and the higher chance for complications.  i am more wanting to discuss the healthy, youngerish couple who have 5 kids or so and at the current time, don't want more children.  If they both agree to abstain from sex for the sole purpose in avoiding having another child, is it sinful.  Are they having the same mindset as NFP usage would be here or are they not sinning since they are having no sex at all where as in NFP you are purposely avoiding during fertile times.  Although I wonder, does the same apply to the abstaining couple.  I mean they are choosing to abstain during the woman's fertile time (her fertile remaining years) for the sole intent to avoid pregnancy.  I have seen arguments for giving up sex for God's glory or using NFP with serious reasons but never seen anything about the couple who abstains for sex with the sole intent to avoid having another child.  Are they sinning by refusing to be open to life and their mindset is sinful or since they are not having sex are they sinless, no matter the reason they both together choose to abstain ?
I think your question of intent is a bit off though. Why would a couple completely abstain from relations for the sole purpose of not having children without doing so for the glory of God? What other incentive is there if you're going that far?  If their intent is to not have any additional children, there are certainly other ways to accomplish that without complete abstinence if they're not doing it for the glory of God. I guess if your thought is, we just want to not have children, but are only giving up sex to avoid sin. Well, then you get into the question of why isn't NFP viable if you have a fairly large family. After that, it's a question of whether the two spouses can abstain without temptation to sin. If you were to ask me right now, I'd tell you that if I were to abstain I'd find it impossible to not fall into sins against chastity. So for me, it'd probably put me into an occasion of sin to willfully abstain and if I were to try to have sex with my wife and she were to refuse, she would be putting me at risk for sin.
what i'm thinking of is the couple wouldn't be able to use NFP because they don't have a serious reason. they have a big family but not reason to not be open to life other than they feel they have 5 kids and don't have a desire to have more children currently. so they know they can't use NFP because they don't have a serious reason. so then they are left with having sex and being open to life and possibly get pregnant or not having sex to avoid pregnancy. since their desire right now and for the foreseeable future is to not have more children. so would it be sinful (assume the spouses can agree this will not cause temptation or near occassion of sin) in their mindset to not have sex? would they be having a so called contraceptive mentality similar to those who use NFP for not serious reasons?
(04-30-2018, 05:15 PM)havok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]what i'm thinking of is the couple wouldn't be able to use NFP because they don't have a serious reason.  they have a big family but not reason to not be open to life other than they feel they have 5 kids and don't have a desire to have more children currently.  so they know they can't use NFP because they don't have a serious reason.  so then they are left with having sex and being open to life and possibly get pregnant or not having sex to avoid pregnancy.  since their desire right now and for the foreseeable future is to not have more children.  so would it be sinful (assume the spouses can agree this will not cause temptation or near occassion of sin) in their mindset to not have sex?  would they be having a so called contraceptive mentality similar to those who use NFP for not serious reasons?

If both spouses agree, I don't see how it's a sin. A mentality is not a sin, though it might lead to sin. An omission is only a sin if there is a duty to do something; if neither spouse is asking for the marriage debt, it is not a sin not to render it. If either spouse changes his or her mind about this arrangement, then it would be a sin to deny the other his or her marriage rights.
I'm not sure, but I wonder how avoiding pregnancy while using NFP is any different from abstinence. 

Isn't it avoiding pregnancy, which is only allowed in grave circumstances, either way?
I came across a similar thread on CAF and it was rather heated.  When God said "be fruitful and multiply", He didn't give the exact details and directions.  We have free will.  I think the problem some people have with NFP is that it draws some parallels with birth control methods mainly that it ATTEMPTS controls pregnancy.  I have no problem with that actually.  NFP protects the sanctity of the sexual union whereas birth control, condoms, etc, removes that sanctity and focuses on pleasure alone.  Refraining from sex for a period of time is a form of fasting which is good and honorable.  It keeps intentions pure and God centered.
(05-14-2018, 08:58 AM)capmchuck Wrote: [ -> ]I came across a similar thread on CAF and it was rather heated.  When God said "be fruitful and multiply", He didn't give the exact details and directions.  We have free will.  I think the problem some people have with NFP is that it draws some parallels with birth control methods mainly that it ATTEMPTS controls pregnancy.  I have no problem with that actually.  NFP protects the sanctity of the sexual union whereas birth control, condoms, etc, removes that sanctity and focuses on pleasure alone.  Refraining from sex for a period of time is a form of fasting which is good and honorable.  It keeps intentions pure and God centered.

"Be fruitful and multiply" is a blessing, not a command.
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