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Has anyone here ever been shunned or avoided by other Catholics for being traditional? 
That stinks. Although keep this in mind, many trads are very prideful, legalistic and rigid. I mean how many debates on here are about women wearing pants. The whole pants debate is classic tradiotionalist debates and lots are very rigid. Not all but lots. I lean trad and I am guilty of this. Trans are very bad about letting their feelings be known verbally or non verbally when it comes to what they feel is better and how they look down on the NO mass. Yes most accept it but look down on it and talk down about it. It’s hard to hear I am sure from a NO parishioner when trads run down their mass.

Remember there are two sides to everything. You perceive the NO parishioners to be one way and they perceive you to be another. I am sure your perceptions are not out of thin air and neither are theirs. You both have given the other a reason to have these perceptions. Being right about something is hard for someone to accept when they perceive your being uncharitable about. Maybe your not uncharitable about, how would I know. Although they may perceive it that way from talking to you or your actions. Just as you may perceive someone who receives on the hand to be less reverent than you who receives on the tongue. Although in reality they may be more reverent but you don’t perceive it that way and at the end of the day once a perception is in your head it’s hard to change your mind about someone.
(04-30-2018, 10:35 PM)credidimus-caritati Wrote: [ -> ]
The interesting thing was that most of the non-traditional Catholics took my traditional beliefs as a personal attack. We are all familiar with the claims coming from them, that somehow traditionalists are "prideful", "legalistic", and "rigid" Pharisees. They act offended, as if we're trying to show them that somehow they are "less Catholic" than we are. 

I wondered about this during prayer, and the Lord gave me the answer quite clearly: People do not like to be challenged. They cannot realize that traditional Catholicism is just Catholicism, true and simple, because the Church is in her fourth great crisis. Our Lord came not to bring peace but a sword, and those closed to Him cannot bear the sword of truth. 

Has anyone here ever been "persecuted" (for lack of a better term) by other Catholics for being traditional? 

Yours in Christ, 
Gabrielle 

Welocome to Fisheaters. I appreciate how you have presented your thoughts.  The response to challenging a persons ideologies, be it science, politics, or religion, generally depends on what is at stake. History has shown us that in this case,  it is an assault on a persons sensibilities to face the realization that a competent and reasonable person is questioning the legitimacy of their religious practices.  Nothing is meant to be personal, but if you are right, it may invalidate all a person has ever held as truth about being a faithful practicing Catholic.  It is easier to discount the messenger as holding an extreme and erroneous position than to consider the alternative. When there is no alternative to the status quo or there is no traditional society easily accessible, which is the case for most Catholics, it must make the idea even less palatable. 

I am not surprised with the stance your diocese or parish has taken, I hope you can accept it and move on without animosity occurring on any side.
One last note, I would agree that persecuted is probably not the ideal word. While there are cases, I don’t know of too many traditional Catholics in the west who face systematic harassment, discrimination or subjugation for their beliefs, especially when considering the persecution that Catholics have faced recently under ISIS and communist regimes.  Perhaps marginalized is a better word.
I have not been persecuted, per se, but I have gotten a lot of "they don't do that anymore" from friends, family and some priests. Interestingly enough the traditional priests in my archdiocese keep getting shuffled around. There is a single parish that practices both the Novus Ordo and Vetus Ordo Masses.

Additionally I work with some Catholic and former Catholics, none of which had any clue about traditionalism. They know what I believe ask me questions; I answer them and let them do their own digging.


Recently I have been going back and forth between diocesan and SSPX parishes. While leaning toward the SSPX and am going on an SSPX retreat over the summer, I have found a really good diocesan parish in diocese next to me. I will make a decision about where home will be over the summer, probably.
(04-30-2018, 10:35 PM)credidimus-caritati Wrote: [ -> ]
Hello everyone, 

This is my first thread here. To summarize briefly, I am a single Catholic laywoman who came to tradition after having been a non-traditional Catholic for years, through the study of theology and canon law. 

I just wanted to quickly share an experience I had today at my territorial parish, a diocesan church where the priests celebrate the Novus Ordo exclusively. Over the past couple of weeks, people at the parish have become more and more aware that I am a traditionalist and a supporter of the Society of St. Pius X, since I have not attended mass at the parish for quite some time. Being a catechist, this aroused some suspicions, since a lot of people here are very anti-SSPX. Today, my pastor pulled me aside during a meeting and told me that I am now forbidden from teaching and cannot enter the classrooms for any reason, since I "teach things we don't believe in". 

If I find a "decree of excommunication" in my mailbox in the near future, I will not be surprised. 

And yet, it is a matter of complete indifference to me, since such an "excommunication" is utterly null and void, as I have committed no offense. I have never uttered a single heresy in teaching, and never have I even made the slightest suggestion that we should be disobedient toward the Supreme Pontiff! Why would I even be mentioning that during my classes? I love the students, and I only desire that they have a thoroughly Catholic education. The rate at which the youth is abandoning the faith today is simply unacceptable, and the only way to solve it is for the Church to return to her tradition. 

The interesting thing was that most of the non-traditional Catholics took my traditional beliefs as a personal attack. We are all familiar with the claims coming from them, that somehow traditionalists are "prideful", "legalistic", and "rigid" Pharisees. They act offended, as if we're trying to show them that somehow they are "less Catholic" than we are. 

I wondered about this during prayer, and the Lord gave me the answer quite clearly: People do not like to be challenged. They cannot realize that traditional Catholicism is just Catholicism, true and simple, because the Church is in her fourth great crisis. Our Lord came not to bring peace but a sword, and those closed to Him cannot bear the sword of truth. 

Has anyone here ever been "persecuted" (for lack of a better term) by other Catholics for being traditional? 

Yours in Christ, 
Gabrielle 
Peace.....I have quietly lost friends because they know I am Traditional, however in this case would not say persecuted.  I believe it is that they really don't understand the reason for being Traditional nor do they want to learn.  They now have a comfort zone.  I was in a NO parish years ago where there was a Sunday School class for the children and a pro-choice woman wanted to teach the Sunday School class.  So, the pastor and most of the congregation was happy to see her take on this role, however the actual parents of the children started removing their children from the class and said they preferred to teach themselves - books are available and so is the Bible.  I personally was happy the parents did that and in a sense it is Traditional even though they were NO.  As a parent, I can see how parents prefer someone they know well from their own parish and community instructing their children.  When someone comes in doing a little different, or not "with" them fully, they are reluctant.  There are so many groups - factions.  God bless, angeltime :heart:
(05-01-2018, 08:04 AM)angeltime Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2018, 10:35 PM)credidimus-caritati Wrote: [ -> ]
Hello everyone, 

This is my first thread here. To summarize briefly, I am a single Catholic laywoman who came to tradition after having been a non-traditional Catholic for years, through the study of theology and canon law. 

I just wanted to quickly share an experience I had today at my territorial parish, a diocesan church where the priests celebrate the Novus Ordo exclusively. Over the past couple of weeks, people at the parish have become more and more aware that I am a traditionalist and a supporter of the Society of St. Pius X, since I have not attended mass at the parish for quite some time. Being a catechist, this aroused some suspicions, since a lot of people here are very anti-SSPX. Today, my pastor pulled me aside during a meeting and told me that I am now forbidden from teaching and cannot enter the classrooms for any reason, since I "teach things we don't believe in". 

If I find a "decree of excommunication" in my mailbox in the near future, I will not be surprised. 

And yet, it is a matter of complete indifference to me, since such an "excommunication" is utterly null and void, as I have committed no offense. I have never uttered a single heresy in teaching, and never have I even made the slightest suggestion that we should be disobedient toward the Supreme Pontiff! Why would I even be mentioning that during my classes? I love the students, and I only desire that they have a thoroughly Catholic education. The rate at which the youth is abandoning the faith today is simply unacceptable, and the only way to solve it is for the Church to return to her tradition. 

The interesting thing was that most of the non-traditional Catholics took my traditional beliefs as a personal attack. We are all familiar with the claims coming from them, that somehow traditionalists are "prideful", "legalistic", and "rigid" Pharisees. They act offended, as if we're trying to show them that somehow they are "less Catholic" than we are. 

I wondered about this during prayer, and the Lord gave me the answer quite clearly: People do not like to be challenged. They cannot realize that traditional Catholicism is just Catholicism, true and simple, because the Church is in her fourth great crisis. Our Lord came not to bring peace but a sword, and those closed to Him cannot bear the sword of truth. 

Has anyone here ever been "persecuted" (for lack of a better term) by other Catholics for being traditional? 

Yours in Christ, 
Gabrielle 
Peace.....I have quietly lost friends because they know I am Traditional, however in this case would not say persecuted.  I believe it is that they really don't understand the reason for being Traditional nor do they want to learn.  They now have a comfort zone.  I was in a NO parish years ago where there was a Sunday School class for the children and a pro-choice woman wanted to teach the Sunday School class.  So, the pastor and most of the congregation was happy to see her take on this role, however the actual parents of the children started removing their children from the class and said they preferred to teach themselves - books are available and so is the Bible.  I personally was happy the parents did that and in a sense it is Traditional even though they were NO.  As a parent, I can see how parents prefer someone they know well from their own parish and community instructing their children.  When someone comes in doing a little different, or not "with" them fully, they are reluctant.  There are so many groups - factions.  God bless, angeltime :heart:

Parents taking their children out of the class is not being trad, it's then being a good Catholic.  Trad vs NO does not refer to following church teaching.  All are called to that.  Those on BOTH sides of the debate have people who don't follow church teaching.  Don't confuse following church teaching as something only Trad s do.
(05-01-2018, 08:40 AM)havok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-01-2018, 08:04 AM)angeltime Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-30-2018, 10:35 PM)credidimus-caritati Wrote: [ -> ]
Hello everyone, 

This is my first thread here. To summarize briefly, I am a single Catholic laywoman who came to tradition after having been a non-traditional Catholic for years, through the study of theology and canon law. 

I just wanted to quickly share an experience I had today at my territorial parish, a diocesan church where the priests celebrate the Novus Ordo exclusively. Over the past couple of weeks, people at the parish have become more and more aware that I am a traditionalist and a supporter of the Society of St. Pius X, since I have not attended mass at the parish for quite some time. Being a catechist, this aroused some suspicions, since a lot of people here are very anti-SSPX. Today, my pastor pulled me aside during a meeting and told me that I am now forbidden from teaching and cannot enter the classrooms for any reason, since I "teach things we don't believe in". 

If I find a "decree of excommunication" in my mailbox in the near future, I will not be surprised. 

And yet, it is a matter of complete indifference to me, since such an "excommunication" is utterly null and void, as I have committed no offense. I have never uttered a single heresy in teaching, and never have I even made the slightest suggestion that we should be disobedient toward the Supreme Pontiff! Why would I even be mentioning that during my classes? I love the students, and I only desire that they have a thoroughly Catholic education. The rate at which the youth is abandoning the faith today is simply unacceptable, and the only way to solve it is for the Church to return to her tradition. 

The interesting thing was that most of the non-traditional Catholics took my traditional beliefs as a personal attack. We are all familiar with the claims coming from them, that somehow traditionalists are "prideful", "legalistic", and "rigid" Pharisees. They act offended, as if we're trying to show them that somehow they are "less Catholic" than we are. 

I wondered about this during prayer, and the Lord gave me the answer quite clearly: People do not like to be challenged. They cannot realize that traditional Catholicism is just Catholicism, true and simple, because the Church is in her fourth great crisis. Our Lord came not to bring peace but a sword, and those closed to Him cannot bear the sword of truth. 

Has anyone here ever been "persecuted" (for lack of a better term) by other Catholics for being traditional? 

Yours in Christ, 
Gabrielle 
Peace.....I have quietly lost friends because they know I am Traditional, however in this case would not say persecuted.  I believe it is that they really don't understand the reason for being Traditional nor do they want to learn.  They now have a comfort zone.  I was in a NO parish years ago where there was a Sunday School class for the children and a pro-choice woman wanted to teach the Sunday School class.  So, the pastor and most of the congregation was happy to see her take on this role, however the actual parents of the children started removing their children from the class and said they preferred to teach themselves - books are available and so is the Bible.  I personally was happy the parents did that and in a sense it is Traditional even though they were NO.  As a parent, I can see how parents prefer someone they know well from their own parish and community instructing their children.  When someone comes in doing a little different, or not "with" them fully, they are reluctant.  There are so many groups - factions.  God bless, angeltime :heart:

Parents taking their children out of the class is not being trad, it's then being a good Catholic.  Trad vs NO does not refer to following church teaching.  All are called to that.  Those on BOTH sides of the debate have people who don't follow church teaching.  Don't confuse following church teaching as something only Trad s do.
Peace.....yes, I understand what you are saying - I really didnt express that properly just meaning that in making that move, to support what they believe is right or wrong is the same as what a Trad person may do in leaving a NO parish to attend a Trad parish for the right reasons of course.  (I dont know if this even explains what I meant - hopefully.....) :heart:
(04-30-2018, 10:35 PM)credidimus-caritati Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone here ever been "persecuted" (for lack of a better term) by other Catholics for being traditional?

I think the term you're searching for is anathema.  It doesn't sound like they're calling the cops on you, beating down your door to run you out of town, torching your house, kicking your dog, etc.  They are simply shunning you.
(04-30-2018, 10:35 PM)credidimus-caritati Wrote: [ -> ]
And yet, it is a matter of complete indifference to me, since such an "excommunication" is utterly null and void, as I have committed no offense. I have never uttered a single heresy in teaching, and never have I even made the slightest suggestion that we should be disobedient toward the Supreme Pontiff! Why would I even be mentioning that during my classes? I love the students, and I only desire that they have a thoroughly Catholic education. The rate at which the youth is abandoning the faith today is simply unacceptable, and the only way to solve it is for the Church to return to her tradition. 

The interesting thing was that most of the non-traditional Catholics took my traditional beliefs as a personal attack. We are all familiar with the claims coming from them, that somehow traditionalists are "prideful", "legalistic", and "rigid" Pharisees. They act offended, as if we're trying to show them that somehow they are "less Catholic" than we are. 

I recently read a comment thread on another forum wherein a N.O. supporter put forth that it has only been 50 years since the introduction of the N.O., and that we just need to "give it time" for it to come up with its own 'traditions.'  When someone pointed out that there was no reason for even having tradition in the first place, because the precedent had been set that many of the 'traditions' that existed prior to VCII, some existing for well over 1,000 years prior, could easily be tossed out, the N.O. supporter became quite nasty, calling anyone who was still in favor of the Latin mass "idiots."  Being that the N.O. supporter considered her co-religionists as 'idiots, when asked what she thought of Protestants or non-Christians, she refused to answer.  In that regard, it was clear that this N.O. supporter felt a greater disdain for Traditional Catholics than she did for non-Catholics (and even non-Christians).  This is a mindset I just can't wrap my head around, and it seems to be the same mindset you are running into at your N.O. parish.
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