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I've always wondered this about politicians who are pro-life but never get real lasting change when it comes to abortion.  Why don't they talk to the democrats and give them so much of what they want if the democrats join with the republicans to change the constitution to essentially make abortion illegal.  Like granting all people the right to life, no matter what stage of their development they are in.  I mean why doesn't a pro-life President just say to the democrats, I'll give Single Payer Healthcare and DACA and whatever other stuff they champion which in itself is not an intrinsic evil if abortion becomes illegal.  

I mean I am not for a lot of what the democrats peddle, but if its not something intrinsically evil and its just a matter of bad policy and something I don't believe will work but it gets rid of abortion, I would sign up for it.  To me abortion is one of the greatest evils we allow as a country.  We need to get rid of it and I feel like we need to be willing to do anything to get rid of it.

So to the question in the topic, what would you be willing to give up to stop abortion?  Higher taxes, Maternity and Paternity leave for a full year, complete medical expenses paid for, for all pregnant women, single payer healthcare.  What would and wouldn't you give up to stop abortion?
I think part of the issue right now is that as long as the Supreme Court upholds RvW, nothing can be done at the legislative level short of a Constitutional Amendment (not so easy). That's why we continue to hold out hope that some of the liberal judges retire during Trump's administration so that more pro-life judges can be installed and we can get a majority. Once you overturn RvW, abortion becomes a state issue. Of course, nothing would change in liberal states unless some sort of federal law were to be passed (or again, a constitutional amendment), but more conservative states down south could easily vote to highly restrict if not outlaw abortion completely.
(05-10-2018, 02:40 PM)GangGreen Wrote: [ -> ]I think part of the issue right now is that as long as the Supreme Court upholds RvW, nothing can be done at the legislative level short of a Constitutional Amendment (not so easy). That's why we continue to hold out hope that some of the liberal judges retire during Trump's administration so that more pro-life judges can be installed and we can get a majority. Once you overturn RvW, abortion becomes a state issue. Of course, nothing would change in liberal states unless some sort of federal law were to be passed (or again, a constitutional amendment), but more conservative states down south could easily vote to highly restrict if not outlaw abortion completely.

R v W overturned a valid TX law so things should be returned to the states

it seems it would be kind of a Civil War type of thing after that, right?

and then maybe abortion would go the way of slavery? (hopefully w /o loss of adult lives as was the case in 1860)
i would not give up anything.  Unfortunately, the democrats, mostly this modern liberal wave of immorality, would love nothing more than to see the Church cease to exist.  There is no compromise.  If you give an inch they will take MANY miles.  As far as the whole on-going abortion issue is concerned, there will never be any agreement until abortion is as mainstream and normalized as buying a candy bar.  Rape and incest are the only avenues to keep the abortion fight alive on the left's part.  Just ignore it.

Abortion would have never been an issue if people would follow God's and the Church's advice which is save sex for marriage.  Sure it's difficult and tough but do you think Jesus had a great time getting beat, spit on, and scolded carrying the Cross?

Ok, enough of my rant.  I just do not believe there should be any compromise of truth to seek agreement with worldly ways.
(05-13-2018, 09:36 AM)capmchuck Wrote: [ -> ]i would not give up anything.  Unfortunately, the democrats, mostly this modern liberal wave of immorality, would love nothing more than to see the Church cease to exist.  There is no compromise.  If you give an inch they will take MANY miles.  As far as the whole on-going abortion issue is concerned, there will never be any agreement until abortion is as mainstream and normalized as buying a candy bar.  Rape and incest are the only avenues to keep the abortion fight alive on the left's part.  Just ignore it.

Abortion would have never been an issue if people would follow God's and the Church's advice which is save sex for marriage.  Sure it's difficult and tough but do you think Jesus had a great time getting beat, spit on, and scolded carrying the Cross?

Ok, enough of my rant.  I just do not believe there should be any compromise of truth to seek agreement with worldly ways.
So no compromises at all?  So you wouldn't give the liberals anything at all to make abortion illegal?  Say if they wanted amnesty for illegals in exchange to make abortion illegal you would say, nope, won't agree with that?  So amnesty for illegals is on part I think abortion?
I'm for giving up Same Sex Marriage, Assault Weapons Bans, Public Education, Amnesty For Illegal Aliens, Right To Die Laws, Legalized Pornography, Affirmative Action, Most Public Aid, etc in order to stop abortion, that's how serious I am.
(05-13-2018, 12:51 PM)Sahavok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-13-2018, 09:36 AM)capmchuck Wrote: [ -> ]i would not give up anything.  Unfortunately, the democrats, mostly this modern liberal wave of immorality, would love nothing more than to see the Church cease to exist.  There is no compromise.  If you give an inch they will take MANY miles.  As far as the whole on-going abortion issue is concerned, there will never be any agreement until abortion is as mainstream and normalized as buying a candy bar.  Rape and incest are the only avenues to keep the abortion fight alive on the left's part.  Just ignore it.

Abortion would have never been an issue if people would follow God's and the Church's advice which is save sex for marriage.  Sure it's difficult and tough but do you think Jesus had a great time getting beat, spit on, and scolded carrying the Cross?

Ok, enough of my rant.  I just do not believe there should be any compromise of truth to seek agreement with worldly ways.
So no compromises at all?  So you wouldn't give the liberals anything at all to make abortion illegal?  Say if they wanted amnesty for illegals in exchange to make abortion illegal you would say, nope, won't agree with that?  So amnesty for illegals is on part I think abortion?

I understand where you are coming from but abortion is a moral issue while immigration is a legal one.  These are two totally different ball games.  You can't cut a deal and change someone's way of thinking.  Being on the side of pro life warrants no compromise in any capacity whatsoever.  When Jesus was as being tempted in the desert, he didn't tell Satan "ok, how bout this" or "maybe this one time".  You get my drift.
(05-14-2018, 08:34 AM)capmchuck Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-13-2018, 12:51 PM)Sahavok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-13-2018, 09:36 AM)capmchuck Wrote: [ -> ]i would not give up anything.  Unfortunately, the democrats, mostly this modern liberal wave of immorality, would love nothing more than to see the Church cease to exist.  There is no compromise.  If you give an inch they will take MANY miles.  As far as the whole on-going abortion issue is concerned, there will never be any agreement until abortion is as mainstream and normalized as buying a candy bar.  Rape and incest are the only avenues to keep the abortion fight alive on the left's part.  Just ignore it.

Abortion would have never been an issue if people would follow God's and the Church's advice which is save sex for marriage.  Sure it's difficult and tough but do you think Jesus had a great time getting beat, spit on, and scolded carrying the Cross?

Ok, enough of my rant.  I just do not believe there should be any compromise of truth to seek agreement with worldly ways.
So no compromises at all?  So you wouldn't give the liberals anything at all to make abortion illegal?  Say if they wanted amnesty for illegals in exchange to make abortion illegal you would say, nope, won't agree with that?  So amnesty for illegals is on part I think abortion?

I understand where you are coming from but abortion is a moral issue while immigration is a legal one.  These are two totally different ball games.  You can't cut a deal and change someone's way of thinking.  Being on the side of pro life warrants no compromise in any capacity whatsoever.  When Jesus was as being tempted in the desert, he didn't tell Satan "ok, how bout this" or "maybe this one time".  You get my drift.

Your argument is not making sense.  I am not arguing for compromises on certain aspects of abortion legal.  I am arguing giving up some things that are not intrinsically evil and are open for a Catholic to choose either side such as immigration, welfare reform, taxes and so on.  None of these issues I mentioned has a morally correct side and and morally incorrect side.  Abortion does.  

The compromise comes from pro-life advocates who support conservative positions on taxes or welfare reform or immigration and if they would be willing to give that up to make abortion illegal.  

Since I didn't really get an answer, I will ask again.  Is there no compromise from you when it comes to giving up  things that are not intrinsically evil to ensure abortion becomes illegal?
(05-14-2018, 02:01 PM)havok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-14-2018, 08:34 AM)capmchuck Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-13-2018, 12:51 PM)Sahavok579257 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-13-2018, 09:36 AM)capmchuck Wrote: [ -> ]i would not give up anything.  Unfortunately, the democrats, mostly this modern liberal wave of immorality, would love nothing more than to see the Church cease to exist.  There is no compromise.  If you give an inch they will take MANY miles.  As far as the whole on-going abortion issue is concerned, there will never be any agreement until abortion is as mainstream and normalized as buying a candy bar.  Rape and incest are the only avenues to keep the abortion fight alive on the left's part.  Just ignore it.

Abortion would have never been an issue if people would follow God's and the Church's advice which is save sex for marriage.  Sure it's difficult and tough but do you think Jesus had a great time getting beat, spit on, and scolded carrying the Cross?

Ok, enough of my rant.  I just do not believe there should be any compromise of truth to seek agreement with worldly ways.
So no compromises at all?  So you wouldn't give the liberals anything at all to make abortion illegal?  Say if they wanted amnesty for illegals in exchange to make abortion illegal you would say, nope, won't agree with that?  So amnesty for illegals is on part I think abortion?

I understand where you are coming from but abortion is a moral issue while immigration is a legal one.  These are two totally different ball games.  You can't cut a deal and change someone's way of thinking.  Being on the side of pro life warrants no compromise in any capacity whatsoever.  When Jesus was as being tempted in the desert, he didn't tell Satan "ok, how bout this" or "maybe this one time".  You get my drift.

Your argument is not making sense.  I am not arguing for compromises on certain aspects of abortion legal.  I am arguing giving up some things that are not intrinsically evil and are open for a Catholic to choose either side such as immigration, welfare reform, taxes and so on.  None of these issues I mentioned has a morally correct side and and morally incorrect side.  Abortion does.  

The compromise comes from pro-life advocates who support conservative positions on taxes or welfare reform or immigration and if they would be willing to give that up to make abortion illegal.  

Since I didn't really get an answer, I will ask again.  Is there no compromise from you when it comes to giving up  things that are not intrinsically evil to ensure abortion becomes illegal?

So what if abortion became illegal?  What have you accomplished?  When a woman decides to have an abortion she will find the means to do it.  In Virginia, an ultrasound is required at no charge before making the final decision to abort so if there were to be any deal making it should be along these lines and not simply trying to stop someone once they have made the decision.  Doing the best that can be done to prevent that decision in the first place would yield much more effective in this fight than putting up road blocks via cutting deals.  Of course, I want abortion to cease to exist but I do not think putting it on the table to negotiate with a party that is staunchly anti-catholic, pro-gay, etc., is the way to go.