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I think it depends on how one defines a Christian.

If someone calls themselves a "Christian" but goes to Church twice a year and prays twice a year and doesn't live according to Jesus's teachings, they probably aren't saved.

I think most "Christians" are like this.
(05-11-2018, 11:19 PM)BrianW99 Wrote: [ -> ]I think it depends on how one defines a Christian.

If someone calls themselves a "Christian" but goes to Church twice a year and prays twice a year and doesn't live according to Jesus's teachings, they probably aren't saved.

I think most "Christians" are like this.

Technically a Christian is any validly baptized individual as at baptism they are incorporated into the body of Christ. All who are baptized and believe all the teachings of the Catholic Church are undoubtedly Christian. Protestants and Orthodox may be referred to as Christians but only in regards to their baptism as they are not in communion with the Church.

Define "saved".
My parish St Alphonusus in Baltimore recently had a bunch of letters for everyone to pick up to read. The paper was a sermon by a saint called The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved. It's an absolutely dreadful letter but it sheds light on the reality of the amount of people who are going to hell. One of the points is how Noah and his family were the only people saved from the flood and this is supposed to represent how many people will make it to Heaven. I'm still in agony after reading it 2 weeks ago.

 https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/arti...-are-saved
We don't know and neither did the saints. I'm sorry, they just didn't know. The Church has never even officially said Judas Iscariot went to hell.
I seriously doubt many people go to hell considering what Christ said about sinners and how much He is willing to forgive.
(05-12-2018, 08:04 PM)Patmappas28 Wrote: [ -> ]My parish St Alphonusus in Baltimore recently had a bunch of letters for everyone to pick up to read. The paper was a sermon by a saint called The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved. It's an absolutely dreadful letter but it sheds light on the reality of the amount of people who are going to hell. One of the points is how Noah and his family were the only people saved from the flood and this is supposed to represent how many people will make it to Heaven. I'm still in agony after reading it 2 weeks ago.

 https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/arti...-are-saved

Thankfully, this sermon was purely the fruit of this priest's pious imagination.  That doesn't mean he is wrong, but every example he used should be understood as his speculation, not some revelation from God.

This is what bothers me about things like this sermon.  They paint a pretty bleak picture for anyone who fails just once and isn't perfect in their grovelling.  He says that out of 30000 people, 5 were saved and the rest went to hell.  Sure, it's hard to argue that the majority of people will be saved given what is written in the Bible, but the knowledge of that, for the vast majority, does not inspire a holy fear as much as it does a final despair.  Who among us would have greater faith that they will be saved with those odds than they would fall into the deepest despair?  Final despair is the only unforgivable sin, so it seems to me, if the Church really wanted to encourage people toward salvation, they would ban this knowledge from being preached, even if it is 100% true.  The despair it causes to numerous souls is more dangerous to their salvation than it is for them to have unrealistically high hopes that their repentance will be efficacious, if it is imperfect but still true.

For years, I have had a hard time with Latin spirituality.  Perhaps its harping on scruples is beneficial for some; for me it has always caused despair.  I am very thankful that I have a fully Byzantine parish that I can attend that preaches repentance without killing the last spark of hope in a soul dimmed by the sorrows of this world.  But even with that available to me within the Catholic Church, every time I read spirituality like this, I really question if I can remain in communion with a church that professes spirituality such as this.  For me, this line of thinking from traditional Latin spirituality is scandalous.  I don't know if merely following a different spirituality is enough.  I really believe that this kind of thinking is poisonous to one's salvation.  If I truly believe that, every time I am confronted with this, I wonder how I can rightfully remain Catholic knowing a part of the Church teaches something I believe to be antithetical to salvation.  It's almost as if the the Roman church is preaching a different gospel on this topic.
What we have to remember is that prophecies, visions, etc about people going to hell are warnings to keep us on the straight and narrow, no one is predestined for it.
(05-10-2018, 10:31 PM)Margaret-Mary Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-10-2018, 04:02 PM)IYgracemary5 Wrote: [ -> ]Do most Christians end up in Hell?


We know the non-Christians end up in Hell (99.9% of the time)

but what do you think about Christians ending up there?

Tonight at Mass our wonderful holy priest said that, as St. Alphonse said, all that worrying about going to hell or others going to hell does is have a chilling effect on our confidence in God’s mercy, so I’m not going to think about it.

yeh, if you don't think about, it will go away

and you won't have to evangelize anyone bc you no longer fear anyone going to Hell
(05-11-2018, 11:19 PM)BrianW99 Wrote: [ -> ]I think it depends on how one defines a Christian.

If someone calls themselves a "Christian" but goes to Church twice a year and prays twice a year and doesn't live according to Jesus's teachings, they probably aren't saved.

I think most "Christians" are like this.

i tend to think so also. No, wait i DO think this

that is also why t he world is in such BAD shape.. no one thinks of Jesus except on Sunday--much less do they DO what all he says. Heck, it seems "christians" can barely even forgive other Christians (for not wearing the right clothes to "church"... for appreciating justice when everyone knows it is all about "looovvvvvveee" and so called mercy... and etc..

it is no wonder Jesus rejects even those who do "miracles in his name" (I think t hat is Lk 13?). He says to them: Depart from me, you evildoers."
(05-11-2018, 11:39 PM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-11-2018, 11:19 PM)BrianW99 Wrote: [ -> ]I think it depends on how one defines a Christian.

If someone calls themselves a "Christian" but goes to Church twice a year and prays twice a year and doesn't live according to Jesus's teachings, they probably aren't saved.

I think most "Christians" are like this.

Technically a Christian is any validly baptized individual as at baptism they are incorporated into the body of Christ. All who are baptized and believe all the teachings of the Catholic Church are undoubtedly Christian. Protestants and Orthodox may be referred to as Christians but only in regards to their baptism as they are not in communion with the Church.

Define "saved".

even those who do all that Jesus said are not saved

they "will be saved" as the Word tells us

they will be saved... probably in the next life, bc most who go to Heaven go by way of Purgatory first.. and sometimes they are there for many yrs before getting to Heaven... and i hear Purgagory is excrutiating so--
(05-13-2018, 12:21 PM)Rivers Wrote: [ -> ]We don't know and neither did the saints. I'm sorry, they just didn't know. The Church has never even officially said Judas Iscariot went to hell.
I seriously doubt many people go to hell considering what Christ said about sinners and how much He is willing to forgive.

this is not waht teh saints say. they say very, very few get to Heaven. St Bernard.. St Leonard of Port Maurice and many other saints say that (my words) hardly anyone makes it

and if you look @ all the evil in the world, the selfishness, the greed, the perverseness,  the malice

not difficult to beleive that most don't make it. I don't find it difficult in the least
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