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I do but never get it.

It seems priests these days can't wait to get out of the Church or something! They give us short homilies, short absolutions w/ no spiritual direction and

gee... We spend 95% of our lives outside Church so this is quite annoying to me... because that 95% of our time is used up being in the worldly world... where Satan rules

and wants to make *&% sure you know it!
(05-17-2018, 12:55 PM)gracemary5 Wrote: [ -> ]I do but never get it.

It seems priests these days can't wait to get out of the Church or something! They give us short homilies, short absolutions w/ no spiritual direction and

gee... We spent 95% of our lives outside Church so this is quite annoying to me... because that 95% of our time is used up being in the worldly world... where Satan rules

and wants to make *&% sure you know it!

While a priest can give you some short advice the confessional is not the place for spiritual direction. The homily is supposed to be short because ootherwise it distracts from the Mass. The absolution formula is of fixed length, if he's shortening it without reason then perhaps leave him a kindly written note explaining the issue. Otherwise tell the pastor and failing that, the bishop.

If you want spiritual direction then first make an appointment and secondly stop ptactically accusing priests of being servants of the devil just because they don't behave exactly as you want them to. Priests are extremely busy, they can't be at every parishioners beck and call.
(05-17-2018, 01:43 PM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]The homily is supposed to be short because ootherwise it distracts from the Mass

Hey I don't wanna derail the thread but I just want to comment on this. 

That's not a fixed rule or practice, the length length of sermons has varied widely depending on time and culture. Many of the sermons of the fathers went on for a couple hours or more, St. Augustine is a prime example. In late antiquity there was a huge emphasis on the use of rhetoric to being people to God, as well as showing his glory.

Many missionary priests I've spoken to have commented on the very long (to us) length of sermons in other cultures where the Catholic community is in some ways more robust and central, like in certain places in Africa.

In our current western climate I'd agree that a preacher should keep it snappy due to the majority of people's attention spans and expectations, but it's not a rule.
(05-17-2018, 09:36 PM)Florus Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-17-2018, 01:43 PM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]The homily is supposed to be short because ootherwise it distracts from the Mass

Hey I don't wanna derail the thread but I just want to comment on this. 

That's not a fixed rule or practice, the length length of sermons has varied widely depending on time and culture. Many of the sermons of the fathers went on for a couple hours or more, St. Augustine is a prime example. In late antiquity there was a huge emphasis on the use of rhetoric to being people to God, as well as showing his glory.

Many missionary priests I've spoken to have commented on the very long (to us) length of sermons in other cultures where the Catholic community is in some ways more robust and central, like in certain places in Africa.

In our current western climate I'd agree that a preacher should keep it snappy due to the majority of people's attention spans and expectations, but it's not a rule.

The general rule I have heard from priests is that 10-20 minutes for a Sunday or Holy Day is the most effective. If a fervarino is given on the weekdays, typically it should be 2-10 minutes (since people are often needing to get to work, etc.)

Much longer and people lose the plot: either they just tune out, or there are too many side points that they will miss the actual theme.
(05-17-2018, 01:43 PM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-17-2018, 12:55 PM)gracemary5 Wrote: [ -> ]I do but never get it.

It seems priests these days can't wait to get out of the Church or something! They give us short homilies, short absolutions w/ no spiritual direction and

gee... We spent 95% of our lives outside Church so this is quite annoying to me... because that 95% of our time is used up being in the worldly world... where Satan rules

and wants to make *&% sure you know it!

While a priest can give you some short advice the confessional is not the place for spiritual direction. The homily is supposed to be short because ootherwise it distracts from the Mass. The absolution formula is of fixed length, if he's shortening it without reason then perhaps leave him a kindly written note explaining the issue. Otherwise tell the pastor and failing that, the bishop.

If you want spiritual direction then first make an appointment and secondly stop ptactically accusing priests of being servants of the devil just because they don't behave exactly as you want them to. Priests are extremely busy, they can't be at every parishioners beck and call.

The standard advice in traditional pastoral theology manuals is that the spiritual direction of women should happen in the confessional for the sake of propriety.

That can be misunderstood, however.

Spiritual direction should generally happen outside of normal confession times, not necessarily outside of the confessional box.

This is because it is supremely uncharitible to take any longer in the box than you need during the normal time, seeing as there may be a line of people who need confession, and if you blabber on unnecessarily, it means they will not be absolved, or not receive Communion, etc.

For most people, a quick advice on virtues to practice and how to avoid particular sins is sufficient spiritual direction. Since most do not practice the basic virtues to a high degree and remain in the beginnings of the purgative life, more extensive direction is not going to be helpful. Once they show progress, more may be useful and necessary.
I do not like spiritual direction in confession.  It makes confession take too long.
(05-17-2018, 11:30 PM)Credidi Propter Wrote: [ -> ]I do not like spiritual direction in confession.  It makes confession take too long.

Admittedly, this is something I find annoying as well.  Aside from helping me distinguish what actions may or may not be sins, if the priest rambles on at length, I kind of start to zone out and need to refocus myself.

I really appreciate it when the priest who is hearing my confession gives a quick, I mean very quick reflection on the Passion, or the horror of sin to excite contrition.  It helps with the doubts I always get after my confession as to whether or not I have made a good confession.

Another thing I am often irritated by, but this is probably due to my misunderstanding of the situation, is when there are other priests in the chapel who are not assisting at mass but who are not hearing confessions.  If there are two or three priests who are available to hear confessions, it would seem to me to make sense to have them hear confessions to help speed up to process. But, that is just me...
(05-17-2018, 09:36 PM)Florus Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-17-2018, 01:43 PM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]The homily is supposed to be short because ootherwise it distracts from the Mass

Hey I don't wanna derail the thread but I just want to comment on this. 

That's not a fixed rule or practice, the length length of sermons has varied widely depending on time and culture. Many of the sermons of the fathers went on for a couple hours or more, St. Augustine is a prime example. In late antiquity there was a huge emphasis on the use of rhetoric to being people to God, as well as showing his glory.

Many missionary priests I've spoken to have commented on the very long (to us) length of sermons in other cultures where the Catholic community is in some ways more robust and central, like in certain places in Africa.

In our current western climate I'd agree that a preacher should keep it snappy due to the majority of people's attention spans and expectations, but it's not a rule.

thanks. I appreciate all you say except that last thing. Why should a priest kowtow to the worldly parishioners (which many of them are, ya know)? That is why they are worldly! They never hear a good LONG homily! 

we wonder why the world is so uncatholic and anti-Catholic???!!! No need to wonder
(05-18-2018, 12:21 PM)Justin Alphonsus Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-17-2018, 11:30 PM)Credidi Propter Wrote: [ -> ]I do not like spiritual direction in confession.  It makes confession take too long.

Admittedly, this is something I find annoying as well.  Aside from helping me distinguish what actions may or may not be sins, if the priest rambles on at length, I kind of start to zone out and need to refocus myself.

yeh, very annoying when there are plenty of priests but they don't do confessions. Anyway, i don't know what area you live in but .. Mars? I have never had a priest ramble on in confession. Well, there was this one yrs ago who ... but he doesn't count bc I think he had some kind of dementia or what the heck ever.. Other than that, well, the priest I like the best does not seem to like confession (?) Maybe that is just my take on it but all he does is give a penance and then go directly to the absolution and that is it!

maybe he's scared of me... laugh

I mean, I don't know.. but at this point I assume he does that with everyone. sigh.... I really need some insight from a priest (I have a serious situation going on--seems serious to me anyhow). I guess I can take htat advice someone here said and make an appointment for such but I have  talked w/ this priest b4 and he.. just doesn't give much insight. I don't get that... he is a priest so well educated.. and I feel he is devout, though don't know him well... so don't get this... nope
(05-17-2018, 10:44 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-17-2018, 09:36 PM)Florus Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-17-2018, 01:43 PM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]The homily is supposed to be short because ootherwise it distracts from the Mass

Hey I don't wanna derail the thread but I just want to comment on this. 

That's not a fixed rule or practice, the length length of sermons has varied widely depending on time and culture. Many of the sermons of the fathers went on for a couple hours or more, St. Augustine is a prime example. In late antiquity there was a huge emphasis on the use of rhetoric to being people to God, as well as showing his glory.

Many missionary priests I've spoken to have commented on the very long (to us) length of sermons in other cultures where the Catholic community is in some ways more robust and central, like in certain places in Africa.

In our current western climate I'd agree that a preacher should keep it snappy due to the majority of people's attention spans and expectations, but it's not a rule.

The general rule I have heard from priests is that 10-20 minutes for a Sunday or Holy Day is the most effective. If a fervarino is given on the weekdays, typically it should be 2-10 minutes (since people are often needing to get to work, etc.)

Much longer and people lose the plot: either they just tune out, or there are too many side points that they will miss the actual theme.

lose the plot? um.... yeh, sounds Hollywood.. not good

maybe people wouldn't have such short attn. spans if they were "forced" to listen to a long homily? I mean, you have short homilies every day for years, you get used to it. And then bc you are used to it, you may not even pay attn to the short homilies.. A parishioner is likely to think
"just a short note from Father about what we read today... no big deal. What should i fix for dinner tonight?"

yeh, not good

it's a novus ordo thing, i am convinced of it
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