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I was discussing baptism with a Mormon coworker of mine. They believe that Jesus' death on the cross atoned for Original Sin, so our souls do not have that stain on them, and thus baptism isn't as important. They don't believe in infant baptism because they believe children can't consciously commit any sins until they've reached the age of reason.

How to respond? I've never really thought about this before.
This religion is so hard to understand.  Baptism isn't as important, yet they spend lots of time researching their family histories so they can have proxy baptisms for the dead.  In fact, my Mormon friends have told me that baptism is absolutely necessary and is the first step toward...whatever they call achieving godhood.  I'm surprised to hear a Mormon say baptism isn't as important.  It has always seemed crucial to their theology and practice, as I've understood it.  However, based on this co-worker's statement, I'd ask him questions like, "if Christ's atonement for Original Sin covers children without baptism, why is baptism even necessary for those sins committed above the age of reason?  Shouldn't the Atonement cover those, too?"  Also, "why do you proxy baptize the dead if baptism isn't as important?"  Finally, "if one is not baptized, how can one achieve this godhood that Joseph Smith preached about?  How is it obtained?  Isn't baptism the start of it, thus making baptism absolutely vital?"
Now that I think about it, I do recall a Mormon friend telling me that children that die under the age of 8 (their age of reason, IIRC) automatically go to the highest level of heaven and receive...I think they call it exaltation, becoming a god.  The first thing to remember about Mormonism is that they tend to base their beliefs on feelings and private revelations from the Holy Ghost and Heavenly Father.  And the teachings of their prophets, which is often contradictory.  I find it very difficult to reason with them.  They have a tendency, in my experience, to look down on things like philosophy, even logic, as those things infected the early Church and led to the Great Apostasy.  In their worldview, at any rate.
Making sense of Mormonism is like making lemonade from potatoes.
Just never make the mistake, even for an instant, of thinking that their pagan cult has anything to do with Christianity. It doesn't.
(06-12-2018, 08:30 PM)SacraCor714 Wrote: [ -> ]I was discussing baptism with a Mormon coworker of mine. They believe that Jesus' death on the cross atoned for Original Sin, so our souls do not have that stain on them, and thus baptism isn't as important. They don't believe in infant baptism because they believe children can't consciously commit any sins until they've reached the age of reason.

How to respond? I've never really thought about this before.

The first thing to understand about Mormonism is that, whatever it may popularly be thought to be, or claim to be, it is not a Christian sect. Mormons are not Christians. Full stop.

They reject the Trinity, and rather treat the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as three separate gods. They assert that Jesus Christ is the natural son of the Father, as in biological son. They assert that these three were so supremely holy that they achieved a divinity far beyond what any other human being, and thus while everyone even after death is still growing in holiness, they will never "catch up" to the Father, Son or Holy Ghost.

That completely false notion of God and the Trinity is why Mormon baptism are considered as certainly invalid. Mormons, received into the Catholic Church are baptized absolutely.

Thus it is no wonder that Mormons have a warped view on original sin and Baptism. They do not think that Baptism remits Original Sin.

To the original question : Christ satisfied for all sin, including the Original Sin. He satisfied actually, but applies this only personally and potentially. This is why in order to receive the effects of this satisfaction, one has to undergo a particular rite : Baptism.

That the application of the effect is separated from the act which merited this effect is not often seen in the world, but does happen. Were I to give a speech that no one paid any attention to today, but in a year someone heard in recording and was moved to do something, you would see the cause and effect separated.

In fact in the case of the remission of Original Sin by the application of that satisfaction, you even have examples where the effect preceded the act (which is typically not possible in the material universe). One example is the preservation of Our Lady from Original Sin, but the salvation of anyone in the Old Testament would be another example.
Never trust a religion that came out of a hat.
                                               or has magic underwear.
(06-13-2018, 06:38 AM)Jeeter Wrote: [ -> ]Never trust a religion that came out of a hat.

(06-13-2018, 07:59 AM)Eric F Wrote: [ -> ]                                               or has magic underwear.

I’m obviously missing something here. Huh
(06-13-2018, 07:24 PM)Paradosiakos Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-13-2018, 06:38 AM)Jeeter Wrote: [ -> ]Never trust a religion that came out of a hat.

(06-13-2018, 07:59 AM)Eric F Wrote: [ -> ]                                               or has magic underwear.

I’m obviously missing something here. Huh

Mormons, at least historically, require their members when at temple to wear special garments, including special underwear.

Joseph Smith created the religion based on translating from several "golden plates" which were absent any writing, but which he could read when he put a seer's stone into his top hat and looked through the hat at the plates. He dictated the book of Mormon this way.

When an incredulous wife of one of his followers and scribes stole some of the book, Smith had a "revelation" that these pages were not needed.

That's what we're dealing with here.
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