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So my 16yo son is going on a pilgrimage to Poland and Medjugorje with his Dad and others from his Novus Ordo parish.

I'm excited for him to visit the Black Madonna and we watched some videos about her and traveling to Poland. I'm also helping him learn some Polish phrases for his trip and made some flashcards which he can have on his phone.

I'm not a believer in the Medjugorje apparitions and have watched videos and listened to talks from Sensus Fidelium which debunk it. It was never approved by the Bishop and one of the visionaries flinched when provoked and then claimed she was worried the Virgin Mary would drop the baby.  Also, there is the claim that Mary said that God is equally pleased by all religions.

The other issue I have is that they will probably be visiting Auschwitz and while I'm not a denier of the Holocaust, I have researched it and found that many parts of the story are untrue.  He will also be taking a semester-long "Holocaust class" this year at his Jesuit school taught by a Jewish teacher.

NOTE:  I don't want to debate the veracity of the Holocaust because I believe that is against forum rules.

However, I need some help discerning what to tell him or videos to show him about Medjugorje and the Holocaust.

Often I feel the need to use a video or podcast to back up what I'm saying and I know of some good ones.

I'm so driven to know the truth and pass it on to him, but I don't want to cause him problems or jeopardize our relationship or his faith.  I'm sure I will probably be the only person in his life who tells him there are issues with the official story in both cases.

So often in my family, if I stood for the truth my kids would laugh at me and my ex-husband would scold me. (He cares more about being liked and "making his kids happy" than about truth.)

This son and I have a good relationship and I've shared videos with him about the issues in the Church to try to get him ready for what's coming.  Once he is in college I will have less time to spend with him or tell him things so I want to make the best use of my time.

I've warned him about the Jesuits and he likes them so much he can't see what the problem is.

He tells me that no one else he knows has any problem with Pope Francis.

There are people he highly respects as Catholics going on the trip including an Eastern Rite priest whose family we have known for a very long time and were in a rosary group together.  This makes it difficult because my criticism could be taken as a criticism of them or the idea that I think I'm better than them. :/

The rest of my family is committed to the story that I'm crazy and this kind of thing can only further that belief when it gets back to them, even though my youngest doesn't believe it.

Any thoughts?
(07-04-2018, 12:14 AM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
Medjugorje - A Deception with Political Implications

Medjugorje: The Untold Story, by E. Michael Jones

The Medjugorje Deception: Queen of Peace, Ethnic Cleansing, Ruined Lives

Medjugorje Information Center

Thanks, Jovan!

Those look like good resources.

It's just hard when I approach these topics because he gets upset.  Everyone else who he knows to be good Catholics believes in it (and other things I debunk) and it upsets him for me to challenge their faith and it makes him question his own. :/
There is a lot of propoganda about the holocaust that greatly favors the Jews but that doesnt mean it wasnt terrible. Many people died in Auschwitz. St Maximillian Kolbe and St Edith Stein were martyred in Auschwitz. 

There's nothing wrong with the Jesuit order as a whole. It used to be rather amazing. Your son just needs to understand that many people within it have used it as a tool to push their own non-Catholics ideas eg. Dr James Martin, a certain Pope.

Its important to discuss these things delicately or else he will probably just dismiss it.

I would recommend just telling him that you don't but the apparitions and explain why but don't overload him or discourage him. After all he's going on a pilgrimage for Mary, that counts for something even if the apparitions were fake.
(07-04-2018, 12:45 AM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]There is a lot of propoganda about the holocaust that greatly favors the Jews but that doesnt mean it wasnt terrible. Many people died in Auschwitz. St Maximillian Kolbe and St Edith Stein were martyred in Auschwitz.

St Teresa, most likely; St Maximilian, despite his canonisation as a martyr (which I don't believe is infallible, but perhaps MagisterMusicae can comment on that), wouldn't have been one any time before St John Paul II. Even Paul VI beatified him as a confessor, since he wasn't killed in odium fidei.

The problem with "the Holocaust" (and that's not what we should be calling it, because "holocaust" means "burnt offering", and who are the Jews being offered to, and for what? Is 6 million lives the price of Zionism?) is that it's used for all sorts of political reasons, and any questioning of any aspect is 'Holocaust denial'. Was it Hitler's plan to kill the Jews, or was it slave labour under horrible conditions? Were gas chambers used at Auschwitz? Was it 6 million, or 7 million, or 4 million Jews?

Vox doesn't want us discussing those topics here, and, to some extent, the answers don't matter. But apply that to any other event in history, and people ask questions like that all the time. Plenty of scholars have tried to justify Roman persecution of Christians, or they say that all they had to do was shut up and the authorities would have ignored them. All sorts of theories are out there about who killed Kennedy. Denying the moon landing might seem wacky to most, but you don't go to jail for saying Apollo 11 was all on a soundstage.

And why the Holocaust? Why not Stalin? Why not Mao? Why not the whole transfer of land and populations - some would say ethnic cleansing - that took place after World War I throughout Europe? Why not Rwanda? What is it about this one event that places it above all others?

(07-04-2018, 12:45 AM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]There's nothing wrong with the Jesuit order as a whole. It used to be rather amazing. Your son just needs to understand that many people within it have used it as a tool to push their own non-Catholics ideas eg. Dr James Martin, a certain Pope.

There is now, and has been for several decades. Not every Jesuit, of course, but the leadership of the order is thoroughly modernist. There's a reason that the joke about how many novenas it takes to get a Mercedes has the Franciscan asking 'What's a Mercedes?' and the Jesuit asking 'What's a novena?' It may have been a great order before, but the ideas it pushes now are dangerous to the Church and to souls. Even more so when they come from the Pope.
(07-04-2018, 12:45 AM)Dominicus Wrote: [ -> ]There is a lot of propoganda about the holocaust that greatly favors the Jews but that doesnt mean it wasnt terrible. Many people died in Auschwitz. St Maximillian Kolbe and St Edith Stein were martyred in Auschwitz. 

There's nothing wrong with the Jesuit order as a whole. It used to be rather amazing. Your son just needs to understand that many people within it have used it as a tool to push their own non-Catholics ideas eg. Dr James Martin, a certain Pope.

Its important to discuss these things delicately or else he will probably just dismiss it.

I would recommend just telling him that you don't but the apparitions and explain why but don't overload him or discourage him. After all he's going on a pilgrimage for Mary, that counts for something even if the apparitions were fake.

Yes, delicately.  

It's difficult because he says I'm just making accusations with no proof and if I try to provide proof it upsets him.

I completely agree the Holocaust was terrible.  I just feel that I was traumatized and brainwashed at a young age to believe that the Jews are the most persecuted people in the history of mankind and therefore we are never, ever to criticize anything they say, or do or anything Israel says or does.  There is this deep feeling of guilt and fear when I do.  I just lost a dear friend because she still feels this way and couldn't handle me telling her about things contrary to that narrative.  She just decided that I hate Jewish people.

I agree that he can grow closer to Mary even though the apparitions are fake.

I also know the Jesuits were awesome and we discuss some of the great Jesuit saints and missionaries. His school has taught him about some of them which is better than the Jesuit run boys school my ex-husband went to.

It's hard for him to know which ones are teaching heresy and I don't really know what they are teaching him.
Paul,

Yes!  You hit the nail on the head about the Holocaust issue.

It's not really the details that matter and as much as the free speech issue!

And now we have anti-BDS laws in half of the states (click here) and they are passing an "Anti-Semitism" law in North Carolina with very very vague definitions, (I posted about that here)  and the Talpiot program in Israel (see here).

These are major issues that will have a big impact on his future life, but in the future, he will be fully in the hands of the brainwashers.

So I'm hoping to at least plant seeds in his head that will ring a bell when faced with these things in the future and help him discern the truth.

Also, it's good for him to know how to discern apparitions, considering that the antichrist may very well perform some false apparitions.
Quote:So often in my family, if I stood for the truth my kids would laugh at me and my ex-husband would scold me. (He cares more about being liked and "making his kids happy" than about truth.)

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about fringe topics I've discussed here, like the trans people on TV.

It was more about things like the problems with Islam, or modesty or manners at the table...
(07-03-2018, 11:32 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: [ -> ]So my 16yo son is going on a pilgrimage to Poland and Medjugorje with his Dad and others from his Novus Ordo parish.

I'm excited for him to visit the Black Madonna and we watched some videos about her and traveling to Poland. I'm also helping him learn some Polish phrases for his trip and made some flashcards which he can have on his phone.

I'm not a believer in the Medjugorje apparitions and have watched videos and listened to talks from Sensus Fidelium which debunk it. It was never approved by the Bishop and one of the visionaries flinched when provoked and then claimed she was worried the Virgin Mary would drop the baby.  Also, there is the claim that Mary said that God is equally pleased by all religions.

The other issue I have is that they will probably be visiting Auschwitz and while I'm not a denier of the Holocaust, I have researched it and found that many parts of the story are untrue.  He will also be taking a semester-long "Holocaust class" this year at his Jesuit school taught by a Jewish teacher.

NOTE:  I don't want to debate the veracity of the Holocaust because I believe that is against forum rules.

However, I need some help discerning what to tell him or videos to show him about Medjugorje and the Holocaust.

Often I feel the need to use a video or podcast to back up what I'm saying and I know of some good ones.

I'm so driven to know the truth and pass it on to him, but I don't want to cause him problems or jeopardize our relationship or his faith.  I'm sure I will probably be the only person in his life who tells him there are issues with the official story in both cases.

So often in my family, if I stood for the truth my kids would laugh at me and my ex-husband would scold me. (He cares more about being liked and "making his kids happy" than about truth.)

This son and I have a good relationship and I've shared videos with him about the issues in the Church to try to get him ready for what's coming.  Once he is in college I will have less time to spend with him or tell him things so I want to make the best use of my time.

I've warned him about the Jesuits and he likes them so much he can't see what the problem is.

He tells me that no one else he knows has any problem with Pope Francis.

There are people he highly respects as Catholics going on the trip including an Eastern Rite priest whose family we have known for a very long time and were in a rosary group together.  This makes it difficult because my criticism could be taken as a criticism of them or the idea that I think I'm better than them. :/

The rest of my family is committed to the story that I'm crazy and this kind of thing can only further that belief when it gets back to them, even though my youngest doesn't believe it.

Any thoughts?

I would stick with Fatima and LaSalette -  these contain all of the important information Catholics need to know today. Medjugorje is a distraction.
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I wouldn't.
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