FishEaters Traditional Catholic Forums

Full Version: "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" explained
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Many trads are confused by the teaching of the Church that extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. I will explain this, for many are confused by this infallible doctrine that all must believe under penalty of sin.

People think, there are exceptions. NO there are no exceptions. When Christ founded the Church, he founded it for all ages and all people. Thus, there was never a time when His Church did not exist. Before Christ, God had a Covenant with Moses. To enter God's Church, one would have to follow the Jewish laws. When Christ came, He founded His Church anew, for the pharisees had become evil and corrupted. From that point on, the Jews were excluded from the Church for they failed to see the Truth.

Is it possible for members of other religions to attain salvation? No. However, there are some "Protestants" (and comparable) who go to heaven because they, without knowing it, were part of the Church on account of their baptism. Thus, there are some who are part of the Church but have been misled and call themselves "Protestant" even when they are truly part of the Church.

Everyone who attains salvation was at one point brought into the Church, knowingly or unknowingly. There are no exceptions.
(08-01-2018, 02:18 PM)ServusDei Wrote: [ -> ]Many trads are confused by the teaching of the Church that extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. I will explain this, for many are confused by this infallible doctrine that all must believe under penalty of sin.

People think, there are exceptions. NO there are no exceptions. When Christ founded the Church, he founded it for all ages and all people. Thus, there was never a time when His Church did not exist. Before Christ, God had a Covenant with Moses. To enter God's Church, one would have to follow the Jewish laws. When Christ came, He founded His Church anew, for the pharisees had become evil and corrupted. From that point on, the Jews were excluded from the Church for they failed to see the Truth.

Is it possible for members of other religions to attain salvation? No. However, there are some "Protestants" (and comparable) who go to heaven because they, without knowing it, were part of the Church on account of their baptism. Thus, there are some who are part of the Church but have been misled and call themselves "Protestant" even when they are truly part of the Church.

Everyone who attains salvation was at one point brought into the Church, knowingly or unknowingly. There are no exceptions.

Then those before the Jews and before Christians who are saved are counted as part of the Church? My priest explained this statement as more of a warning for Catholics who become heretics rather than saying people can not be saved without a Christian presence (which is extremely new in human history). I ask become you mentioned baptism, meaning you are only counted as part of the Church with direct baptism, or...?
(08-01-2018, 03:20 PM)Abaxvahl Wrote: [ -> ]Then those before the Jews and before Christians who are saved are counted as part of the Church? My priest explained this statement as more of a warning for Catholics who become heretics rather than saying people can not be saved without a Christian presence (which is extremely new in human history). I ask become you mentioned baptism, meaning you are only counted as part of the Church with direct baptism, or...?

My understanding for those that came before Christ is that the just waited in "Abraham's bosom" (aka the Limbo of the Fathers). When Christ died, He descended there and brought them that "Christian presence" as you put it, incorporating them into Himself, which is what Baptism does by incorporating us into the Church.
(08-01-2018, 03:33 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: [ -> ]My understanding for those that came before Christ is that the just waited in "Abraham's bosom" (aka the Limbo of the Fathers). When Christ died, He descended there and brought them that "Christian presence" as you put it, incorporating them into Himself, which is what Baptism does by incorporating us into the Church.

Exactly. For instance, today is the Feast of the Holy Machabees.
(08-01-2018, 02:18 PM)ServusDei Wrote: [ -> ]There are no exceptions.

That's not the Catholic teaching, or at least for someone who calls himself a θεολόγος is woefully absent the necessary distinctions.
MagisterMusicae Wrote:That's not the Catholic teaching, or at least for someone who calls himself a θεολόγος is woefully absent the necessary distinctions.

So the Church would infallibly endorse a fallible doctrine? The way I see it is that everyone who is saved has entered into the Church in some way - remember, there are the baptisms of blood and of desire.
(08-01-2018, 04:18 PM)ServusDei Wrote: [ -> ]
MagisterMusicae Wrote:That's not the Catholic teaching, or at least for someone who calls himself a θεολόγος is woefully absent the necessary distinctions.

So the Church would infallibly endorse a fallible doctrine? The way I see it is that everyone who is saved has entered into the Church in some way - remember, there are the baptisms of blood and of desire.

At the end of the day anyone who is saved is saved in the Church. There are no Non-Catholics in heaven because even if they are saved while having not lived as a Catholic in their lives, they certainly came not only to believe, but also know the Truth of the Church. 

Beyond that, whether Prots or anyone else can be saved by not converting to Catholicism is beyond my knowledge.  Considering theologians still debate it is enough to say that no one will ever know this side of death. However, it's certainly true that Catholicism is the ordinary means of Salvation and that presumption of Salvation outside of it is foolish.
Christ did say that nobody could get to the Father except through Him, and He founded the Church, is present in the Church, and guides the Church, His bride.
(08-01-2018, 03:33 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: [ -> ]My understanding for those that came before Christ is that the just waited in "Abraham's bosom" (aka the Limbo of the Fathers). When Christ died, He descended there and brought them that "Christian presence" as you put it, incorporating them into Himself, which is what Baptism does by incorporating us into the Church.

That makes sense, I had forgotten about there. Thank you for answering. Smile
This is the ONE dogma that even non-believers who can't believe mom didn't go to Heaven take noticeof. Just bring this teaching up at a party and see sparks fly which shows it touches the soul of people.
Pages: 1 2 3 4