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Can someone help with this.  A couple different questions in this idea.

I see older teaching like Unam Sanctam, and council of Trent, teaching clearly no salvation outside the Catholic Church.  Would this eliminate the Eastern Orthodoxy as well?


The new Catechism says atheists, Muslims, Hindus - pretty much everyone can be saved, because they basically can be connected to the Catholic Church even though they are not actually aware of it.

Which one is right?  The earlier teaching seems to exclude even the EO whom I believe are part of the Church, while the latter is pretty much an open door for anything.
The teaching of Trent is clear on the issue, and nothing in the new catechism can override it. With the Orthodox, however, the situation is sticky. There are just as many if not more Eastern Orthodox laymen that believe in Petrine (Primacy) and Purgatory and such as there are laymen who hate Rome with every fiber of their being. And really, if we have Catholics who believe in sodomite marriage and contraception, who are the real schismatics? The little Russian lady who prays for her dead and believes the faith, or Catholic Sally in New York marching in the pride parade? I think it really comes down to particulars when "outside the Church" comes up concerning our Eastern friends. May God bring us back into union soon.
Yes - the new Catechism is bewildering to me. You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to make it fit with teaching from Trent.

And I have heard Orthodox that are much more orthodox than many Catholics. We even have an RE director that does not seem to want to get on board with no contraception and is very absent on any pro-life issues.

Today we even have many clergy that are outright schismatics.
(09-28-2018, 10:57 AM)friendly.neighborhood.papist Wrote: [ -> ]The teaching of Trent is clear on the issue, and nothing in the new catechism can override it. With the Orthodox, however, the situation is sticky. There are just as many if not more Eastern Orthodox laymen that believe in Petrine Supremecy and Purgatory and such as there are laymen who hate Rome with every fiber of their being. And really, if we have Catholics who believe in sodomite marriage and contraception, who are the real schismatics? The little Russian lady who prays for her dead and believes the faith, or Catholic Sally in New York marching in the pride parade? I think it really comes down to particulars when "outside the Church" comes up concerning our Eastern friends. May God bring us back into union soon.

The Eastern Orthodox pray for the dead, but it really isn't accurate to say they believe in purgatory.  There is no concept in Orthodoxy of a place where you go to be punished with fire to expiate a debt of sins that were not fully paid off in this life.  I also am not aware of any Orthodox who believe in papal supremacy.  The catechists and theologians are so fully opposed to it that someone would have had to have been raised without much of any religious education at all in order to not be repulsed by the idea of papal supremacy, the indoctrination on this issue is that pervasive.
Agreed, Melkite! I think what f.n.p meant was Papal primacy not supremacy. I've met a lot of Orthodox in my life, and I've never met one that believed in the Petrine supremacy. However, they all believe that if the Pope of Rome would 'return to Orthodoxy' he would be First Among Equals of all Hierarchs.

And as far as praying for the dead, all Orthodox do it. Here's a link to the panikhída or parastos, the memorial service for the dead as an illustration: Parasto
Just preach the Dogma No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church PERIOD, who gets into Heaven is up to the HOLY TRINITY and not for us to concern ourselves about. They are the judges!   We just tell others how to get to Heaven, if they are looking for a way around a dogma they are not of good will. So if someone asks you tell them the teaching and if they ask who's in Heaven refer them to Almighty God.
I don’t believe in papal supremacy either, papal primacy, yes. I think the idea of supremacy has created a lot of abuse of the office, especially in recent times. The current teaching of either you believe in papal supremacy or face eternal damnation is just plain tyranny.
I don’t think the part about the primacy of St Peter has been properly translated from the Bible and the RC Church is using it to its advantage.
I simply refer you to the Dogmatic Constitution Pastor Aeternus of the First Vatican Council, binding upon all Catholics. Those who do not accept it are not Catholic, pure and simple, no matter how falsely they may claim the name.
To me the document appears to further isolate the RC Church from the eastern rites. The more I read it the more I question my own RC faith.
As Chevalier Charles Coulombe is fond of pointing out, the Church has four creeds binding on all Catholics. They are the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, that we recite at Mass, the Athanasian Creed, recited at Prime on Trinity Sunday and the Creed of the Council of Trent or the Creed of Pope Pius IV. In the latter, every Catholic is called upon to,


Quote:I acknowledge the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church as the mother and teacher of all churches; and I promise true obedience to the Bishop of Rome, successor to St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and Vicar of Jesus Christ.


I likewise undoubtingly receive and profess all other things delivered, defined, and declared by the sacred Canons and œcumenical Councils, and particularly by the holy Council of Trent; and by the œcumenical Council of the Vatican, particularly concerning the primacy of the Roman Pontiff and his infallible teaching, and I condemn, reject, and anathematize all things contrary thereto, and all heresies which the Church has condemned, rejected, and anathematized.
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