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Somebody said this to me in a Traditional Catholic online discussion group:—

Quote:. . . [S]ex is sacred by the very fact that the male and female are 'co-creators' of the Creator which brings an immortal soul to the created being via sex.

This is the only act that we share as being 'co-creator's' of God to force His hand to put a soul in a person that the parents have brought into being.

No other act we do can force God to do anything other than a priest confecting the Eucharist.


Is this true? It seems wrong to me. I know that I could be mistaken. Maybe he is right. But something about the notion of "forcing God" to do something seems off to me.
(02-23-2019, 10:56 PM)bryanreynolds Wrote: [ -> ]Is this true? It seems wrong to me. I know that I could be mistaken. Maybe he is right. But something about the notion of "forcing God" to do something seems off to me.

God binds Himself to these acts. Nobody can force Him to do anything. There's no reason why He couldn't refuse to create a soul for a newly-conceived child, but why would He? He created man out of love, and why wouldn't He want more souls?
Trying to force God is a path to a slippery slope . Luke 4:8 And Jesus answering said to him , It is written Thou shalt adore the Lord thy God , and him only shalt thou serve . ; (Serve not Force), yeah you are right to force is wrong for sure .
Thanks. Can anyone add any more?
(02-23-2019, 10:56 PM)bryanreynolds Wrote: [ -> ]Somebody said this to me in a Traditional Catholic online discussion group:—

Quote:. . . [S]ex is sacred by the very fact that the male and female are 'co-creators' of the Creator which brings an immortal soul to the created being via sex.

This is the only act that we share as being 'co-creator's' of God to force His hand to put a soul in a person that the parents have brought into being.

No other act we do can force God to do anything other than a priest confecting the Eucharist.


Is this true? It seems wrong to me. I know that I could be mistaken. Maybe he is right. But something about the notion of "forcing God" to do something seems off to me.

The idea of Forcing God to do anything is a joke,  what is the point in being God if God has to be " Forced " To do something, God chose to create the Eucharist and chose humanity to be the never ending  bridge through the priesthood to link humanity to Christ.  An giving birth, procreation , isn't a forceful act either , it is how God created humanity, another choice by God. That humanity can choose to participate in through marriage. One can choose to ends one life as well, and then what ? We are supposed to believe that Gods mercy and love ends with the church superseding what God chooses to do and then sites scripture with the what you bind on earth is bound in heaven, as if God cant make the final decision.

If God wants to, He can instantly turn us all into what ever he wants for what ever reason, change the world over in an instant and back again, and there is nothing we can do to " Force God " into doing that he doesn't choose to do. We can only pray for change, and prayer isn't some magical, mystical, thing to be grasped. God can change His mind if he chooses to and act if he chooses to when we pray. But if prayer was some, giving birth, the priesthood concecrating the Eucharist was some form of forcing God into action were true, then there would be no suffering in the world. People wouldn't starve to death, there wouldn't be famine, plagues , war, violence, kidnappings , democrats , etc. We would could just say a prayer and " Force God " to make it all go away.

An what ever God decides to do is good and out of love, we may not agree with the pain and suffering, the time frame with which God answers prayers, the confusion as to why God answers some prayers rather quickly in a human time frame, doesn't answer some at all, etc . But in the end there is no Forcing God to do good or be apart of humanity, humanity would be throwing chicken bones and praying if it meant it could force God to interact with us.
(02-23-2019, 10:56 PM)bryanreynolds Wrote: [ -> ]Somebody said this to me in a Traditional Catholic online discussion group:—

Quote:. . . [S]ex is sacred by the very fact that the male and female are 'co-creators' of the Creator which brings an immortal soul to the created being via sex.

This is the only act that we share as being 'co-creator's' of God to force His hand to put a soul in a person that the parents have brought into being.

No other act we do can force God to do anything other than a priest confecting the Eucharist.


Is this true? It seems wrong to me. I know that I could be mistaken. Maybe he is right. But something about the notion of "forcing God" to do something seems off to me.
I recently finished the book Three to Get Married by Fulton Sheen and he discusses this co-creation, so that all checks out. However, the use of the term "force His hand" does seem odd. I think it would be phrased better if it said something along the lines of "God will honor our openness to His plan and provide a soul for the body we helped make."
Using the word "force" is a bit much, but I think I get the idea.
Well, I stand corrected. I came across this from St. Faustina's Diary:

"After Holy Communion, I heard these words — You see what you are of yourself, but do not be frightened at this. If I were to reveal to you the whole misery that you are, you would die of terror. However, be aware of what you are. Because you are such great misery, I have revealed to you the whole ocean of My mercy. I seek and desire souls like yours, but they are few. Your great trust in Me forces Me to continuously grant you graces. You have great and incomprehensible rights over My Heart, for you are a daughter of complete trust. You would not have been able to bear the magnitude of the love which I have for you if I had revealed it to you fully here on earth (Diary, 718)."

I think it's akin to a husband telling his wife, or vice versa, "I have no choice but to love you," in the sense that they are so compelled by the other's goodness and preciousness.
With all due respect to all believers of St Faustina’s diaries, private revelations are not binding. That excerpt does not ease my discomfort w the notion that God is ‘forced’ by man to do anything.
(02-25-2019, 02:28 AM)Credidi Propter Wrote: [ -> ]Using the word "force" is a bit much, but I think I get the idea.

A better way of putting this is God's "concordance."

God has by a single act of will created all things, permitted what will happen, and sought the end which is his own glory and the sharing of His goodness with his creatures. In that act He has decided to create things with certain natures which will act according to that nature, including free beings. When these act using that nature, it is they who are acting, but God, because He is First Cause, also must "act" at least by permitting that things to happen.

God "concords" with these actions.

Parents have marital relations and a child is conceived. God knew this would happen, and willed to infuse a soul when he created them and gave them their nature. He is not being "forced" in the normal sense of that word. It is like a parent being "forced" to provide his child with food and shelter. It's part of the very thing that makes one a parent. And even that is a poor analogy, since God not only bound himself to provide for the soul by his concordance, but also knew all of what would happen from all eternity. 

It's hard to say one is forced when one has already decided to do something and knew all of the intimate details of it before anything else even came to be.
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