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Full Version: What do Protestants experience when they describe a “personal relationship with God”?
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Firstly, Michael Voris once distinguished between Catholics and Protestants by stating that Protestants usually refer to 'The Lord' regardless of a 'personal relationship' (shudder), whereas we refer to Him as 'Our Lord' and hence potentially enjoy a greater degree of closeness and intimacy.

Although I've long since gone off of Michael Voris, he makes an astute point sometimes in general and here in particular.

Secondly, people here have - it seems to me anyway - made good points about Protestants (in many, or even most cases) appearing to have almost a revulsion for the idea that Good Works are necessary, as opposed to merely being a bonus (hence stopping themselves from that connection they claim they have/want).

Even if Protestants (or any non-Catholics) are responsible for Works, then that is not good enough because St. James obviously wrote that you can't have Faith without Works, so surely you also can't have Works without Faith?
I wish I had a personal relationship with Jesus, where he actually talks to me.
I don't. I have a corporate relationship (i.e. I'm in his Church) and I need to get it through my thick skull that I can't be that close to Jesus that I could be a mystic. I must be an egomaniacial narcissist to think I could get that close to Jesus.
(09-08-2019, 03:05 PM)BobCatholic Wrote: [ -> ]I wish I had a personal relationship with Jesus, where he actually talks to me.
I don't.  I have a corporate relationship (i.e. I'm in his Church) and I need to get it through my thick skull that I can't be that close to Jesus that I could be a mystic.   I must be an egomaniacial narcissist to think I could get that close to Jesus.

A 'personal relationship with Jesus' makes me recoil on account of the notion being Protestant in origin and nature, generally (if not entirely) leading to irreverence and/or misunderstanding our place before God.

Having closeness/intimacy with Our Lord does not require one to subscribe to this perspective, since many of the Mystics had that without doing so, just like we all can, even if we don't reach the heights of Mysticism.

Also, does belonging to the Church mean nothing to you? You're speaking about the Church as though it's being treated like a business, but isn't the Church about all of us together and so - according to the original meaning of 'corporate' referring to a group/community etc. as opposed to its contemporary meaning of corporations - sharing (the highest and greatest) corporate unity?

Obviously each person is made in the Image and Likeness of God. Yet when you make it about you ('personal'), by changing it from the (profound) spirituality of Religion into the emotionalism of a 'relationship', then isn't all of that at least a little bit egomaniacal and/or narcissistic?

If any of us do truly love God (especially with all our heart, soul, mind and strength), then that will surely only come through humility, which seems to me to be incompatible with the (Protestant) 'personal relationship' and its emphasis on Self.
(08-14-2019, 11:22 AM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]I assume everyone’s familiar with “accepting Christ as your personal Saviour” as described by many Protestants.


IMO we should also be familiar with it ourselves as Catholics, this is what separates Catholics and Cafeteria Catholics who don't really believe and just treat the Church like it's some kind of ancestry, club or family tradition.

In it's simplest form -

Luke 9:18-20 Wrote:18 Now it happened that as he was praying alone the disciples were with him; and he asked them, “Who do the people say that I am?” 19 And they answered, “John the Baptist; but others say, Eli′jah; and others, that one of the old prophets has risen.” 20 And he said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

John 18:33-34 Wrote:33 Pilate entered the praetorium again and called Jesus, and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered, “Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?”

When we can say with St Thomas "My Lord and my God" only then can we become real Catholics, and have already accepted Christ in our Hearts as our Lord and God and hence why I'm Catholic.

(08-14-2019, 11:22 AM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]Many of these people seem to be doing what’s right according to a dulled conscience.

I don't think it's deluded, I think it is right and a crucial step, it's simply the incorrect and false teachings taking them away from the Church Christ founded and His real presence in the Holy Eucharist that is so sad.

(08-14-2019, 11:22 AM)FultonFan Wrote: [ -> ]So what are they experiencing when they go to Christ in prayer? Are they receiving graces to lead them to full Communion with the Church? Is it something else they’re experiencing?

I do believe they can and do receive graces that can lead them back to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (Dr Scott Hahn perfect example), if they follow it though, and not just stay content where they are or if they do not have a sin/reservation of some kind holding them back.

Dr Scott Hahn clearly accepted Christ in his heart as 'my Lord and my God', which was the key that ended up leading him home to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

God Bless You
I agree with much of what Josh said above, and am very slow to criticize protestants. I know many Catholics that have been to Mass for years, yet don't seem to "know Jesus as their personal Lord and savior".

And many fallen away Catholics that say they never knew Jesus as a Catholic but found that relationship often in another church, one that often had better fellowship and better preaching than the average NO parish.

I was that guy. Too often I see people criticize them about this, saying they should have never left.

What I really see missing in the Catholic Church is anyone asking "Why?" I have seen lives changed in a visible way outside the RCC, and I have seen some stay in the RCC and never seem to change. We should really ask Why?
(09-10-2019, 09:53 PM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with much of what Josh said above, and am very slow to criticize protestants.  I know many Catholics that have been to Mass for years, yet don't seem to "know Jesus as their personal Lord and savior".  

And many fallen away Catholics that say they never knew Jesus as a Catholic but found that relationship often in another church, one that often had better fellowship and better preaching than the average NO parish.

I was that guy.  Too often I see people criticize them about this, saying they should have never left.  

What I really see missing in the Catholic Church is anyone asking "Why?"  I have seen lives changed in a visible way outside the RCC, and I have seen some stay in the RCC and never seem to change.  We should really ask Why?

When it comes to speaking about 'Jesus as Our personal Lord and Saviour', why is the word 'personal' remotely necessary in that sentence?

(By the way, not trying to antagonise those people - probably most of you - who spell 'Savior' the American way. It's just that we spell it with a 'u' over here and I'm not changing it)

When it comes to speaking about knowing Our Lord, why is the word 'relationship' remotely necessary? We do after all belong to the True Religion/Faith/Church rather than just a 'relationship'.

Maybe many Catholics don't change, which probably has something to do with the fact that the Church has for a long time increasingly been Protestantized (and is still being so now).

Whereas when it comes to Protestants I repeat what I said before:
'Even if Protestants (or any non-Catholics) are responsible for Works, then that is not good enough because St. James obviously wrote that you can't have Faith without Works, so surely you also can't have Works without Faith?'

Christian unity is not one 'Church' uniting through Ecumenism with another 'Church', but Catholics all coming together to form one Church.

Don't we want the Church to be at its purest, strongest and most Catholic?

Don't we also want all, including Protestants, to truly be our brothers and sisters and to be saved?
To protestant ears a personal
relationship would un-necessitate
attendance of catholic mass?
(09-11-2019, 08:03 AM)Blind Horus Wrote: [ -> ]To protestant ears a personal
relationship would un-necessitate
attendance of catholic mass?

Forgive my slowness, but what do you mean?
(09-11-2019, 08:29 AM)Stephanus ignotum Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-11-2019, 08:03 AM)Blind Horus Wrote: [ -> ]To protestant ears a personal
relationship would un-necessitate
attendance of catholic mass?

Forgive my slowness, but what do you mean?

If you have a personal relationship  with Our Lord, why attend mass?
(09-11-2019, 08:37 AM)Blind Horus Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-11-2019, 08:29 AM)Stephanus ignotum Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-11-2019, 08:03 AM)Blind Horus Wrote: [ -> ]To protestant ears a personal
relationship would un-necessitate
attendance of catholic mass?

Forgive my slowness, but what do you mean?

If you have a personal relationship  with Our Lord, why attend mass?

Since it's not supposed to be about 'having a relationship' as though Our King is little better than a boyfriend/girlfriend (not that that doesn't mean anything, but speaking relatively), but belonging to/practising the Faith reverently and because that is the invitation to closeness, not an impediment to it.

Hence, how can you have that closeness without practising in generally and attending Mass in particular?

Plus, is it any wonder that when seen as a 'relationship', people then treat churches as no better than somewhere they're hanging out in?
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