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Yesterday, I tried Bibliomancy for the first time to strengthen me as I was enduring strong temptations. I ended up falling into those temptations, but the passage I opened to stuck with me, Isaiah 49:6-8:

Quote:"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up to the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved of Israel; I will give you as a light to the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."

Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel and his Holy One, to one deeply despised, abhorred by the nations, the servant of rulers: "Kings shall see and arise; princes, and they shall prostrate themselves; because of the Lord, who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen you."

What this passage demonstrates to me is Christ's universal salvation, despite His being despised by the powers of this world, that I can attain by humbling myself before him. Like the kings and princes mentioned, I have been prideful in my persistent sinfulness. I have not relied upon Christ fully; I have not truly humbled myself before Him. 

I think that conquering sin is all about my efforts when it's actually entirely about relying upon Christ. Or else I fall into despair because of my habitual sins, which only further alienates me from Christ and leads me to neglect the sources of these sins as well as all the other "minor" sins I commit because of my overly intense focus on my habitual sins.

I need to humble myself and truly follow the light to all nations.

Edit: I just tried again now and opened to Isaiah 16:6: "We have heard of the pride of Mo'ab, how proud he was; of his arrogance, his pride, and his insolence - his boasts are false."

I don't who this Mo'ab is but I'm guessing his pride relates to my own. Undoubtedly, I need to work on humbling myself.
Bibliomancy? As in divination?
(09-04-2019, 08:13 AM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]Bibliomancy? As in divination?

Quote:While on the topic of reading Sacred Scripture, I thought I'd include a few notes about "bibliomancy," that is, the use of Sacred Scripture in a way that seems random, but which is taken personally, as a sign from God. It's most often done, when one has a problem or question he needs answers to, by holding the Bible, spine down, over a table, closing one's eyes, allowing the Book to fall open as it will when you let go of it, pointing randomly to a verse, and then reading that verse in light of the question or problem you are having.
Source: https://www.fisheaters.com/lectiodivina.html
I would in no way recommend this practice, and in fact would suggest people avoid it.

It smacks of gnosticism and pagan-style divination.

Sure, one is not calling upon a demon, but one is at least very close to the sin of tempting God. Add to this that no major spiritual author recommends this practice, but rather just standard reading of spiritual works and Scripture with commentaries along with contemplation of these, plus a regular prayer life.

This kind of practice also very much appeals to the New Age spirit which is very prevalent of seeing signs and feelings combined with the personal interpretation of Scripture of the Protestants. 

Have scenarios played themselves out in the lives of Saints where some passage is seen or read and a message from God gleaned from this? Sure, for instance with St Augustine? I would suggest these are very different that what is described. In the tolle lege incident St Augustine was being told to open the book and find the passage that God wanted to use to inspire a certain thought or disposition. The impetus for this was from God, not St Augustine seeking signs. 

Very much troubled to see this practice discussed on FE. The normal means of sanctification are sufficient, let's not go all weird.
While I do not personally practice this rather foolish exercise in desultory, it does mesh well with the Protestant types who place huge weight of Dogma on mere verses or even phrases of Biblical text. If you aren't interested in more than a few words of wisdom, without the context of those words, you'd fit right in at any Baptist meeting, but, respectfully, not in Catholic circles.
(09-04-2019, 04:32 PM)Zedta Wrote: [ -> ]While I do not personally practice this rather foolish exercise in desultory, it does mesh well with the Protestant types who place huge weight of Dogma on mere verses or even phrases of Biblical text. If you aren't interested in more than a few words of wisdom, without the context of those words, you'd fit right in at any Baptist meeting, but, respectfully, not in Catholic circles.

Yes, because I tried Bibliomancy for the first time, which I just found out from this very trad website, that makes me a foolish Protestant, uninterested in the full wisdom and context of the Bible, who must be excluded from Catholic circles. 

Perhaps, the "you" in this comment isn't directed at me personally, but I can't help but feel included in the snark of this condescending comment. There are many ways to dissuade people from engaging in practices you deem harmful or wrong without being so condescending.

And for what it's worth, Baptists would most likely consider Bibliomancy sorcery, so I don't know why you have to include them in your snark.
(09-04-2019, 04:02 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]I would in no way recommend this practice, and in fact would suggest people avoid it.

It smacks of gnosticism and pagan-style divination.

Sure, one is not calling upon a demon, but one is at least very close to the sin of tempting God. Add to this that no major spiritual author recommends this practice, but rather just standard reading of spiritual works and Scripture with commentaries along with contemplation of these, plus a regular prayer life.

This kind of practice also very much appeals to the New Age spirit which is very prevalent of seeing signs and feelings combined with the personal interpretation of Scripture of the Protestants. 

Have scenarios played themselves out in the lives of Saints where some passage is seen or read and a message from God gleaned from this? Sure, for instance with St Augustine? I would suggest these are very different that what is described. In the tolle lege incident St Augustine was being told to open the book and find the passage that God wanted to use to inspire a certain thought or disposition. The impetus for this was from God, not St Augustine seeking signs. 

Very much troubled to see this practice discussed on FE. The normal means of sanctification are sufficient, let's not go all weird.

So, shoot me. I found out about it on this website. It seemed strange but also piqued my curiosity. I tried it, found a couple verses I had never read before, read and contemplated them and applied them to my current personal situation, and that's it. 

The primary difference between this and standard Bible reading was the fact that I found these verses through chance. I don't put any spiritual weight in this practice and I don't plan on using it again because I prefer to actually read the Bible at length. I just wanted to try it and discuss it.
(09-04-2019, 06:41 PM)whitewashed_tomb Wrote: [ -> ]So, shoot me.

I'm not sure why you're taking this personally. Nothing I wrote was about you, but about the practice not being worthy of recommendation by your interlocutor.

I was more troubled that it was mentioned on FE, and there for you to find, not your curiosity at it.

I don't have any issues with you, nor was my post try to express any such issues.

Your desire to read Scripture in a more standard manner, and the Catholic sense that this practice is weird is good. I would recommend that you get some good Catholic commentaries for said reading, though. They are very helpful.

You might also pick up any of the standard traditional spiritual readings, like St Francis de Sales, Bl Columba Marmion, or many others who can also provide some good thoughts for contemplation and helps when we are tempted.
I think it's fine if you know that God doesn't owe you the right verse and answer for your problem at that moment, it's not divination. 

I've often chosen a random verse to read for inspiration and interest, and occasionally I've found some helpful stuff (it is the Bible after all).
I don't practice this but at least it mentions to have a good concordance on hand so you can understand what you are reading in context.

Again not my cup of tea.
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