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So for years the Church has taught against private interpretation of Scripture.  I have seen the come full circle into backfire.

I recently have been in debate at parish council and liturgy meetings - debate with mixed up liberal "catholics".  When you show them Biblical reasons for things they totally blow it off saying - "Well that's your interpretation of the Bible".


In some cases it's less clear - but others - it is very clear.  So it feels like this conditioning of Catholics that nobody outside of clergy can use the Bible is really blowing up in our faces here.  And the problem was actually stated out loud that we have a poorly formed Bishop and clergy here (if you have seen my other post on how they allowed a Masonic "funeral" service in the church building).  

So we are ONLY left with sound laity to steer the ship.

Wow - what would you do?  BTW - no, there is not a single TLM or Eastern parish in the whole diocese.
That's just the thing, not only do you have scripture on your side, but also the saints and the Doctors of the Church and the Catechism etc.

What was the specific issue?

Good to read your havin' a swing... mate I feel for ya, sounds like you got it tough.

God Bless :)
Oh - we are starting to push back on the liberals and modernists, and Cafeteria Catholics. And we are outnumbered heavily. And mostly abandoned by the clergy, all the way up to the bishop - who will stand for some things, but not others, and promotes the "Charismatic Renewal".

Like one really good older Catholic lady I knew said - The Cafeteria is CLOSED!

It's crazy.
(09-20-2019, 09:23 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]Oh - we are starting to push back on the liberals and modernists, and Cafeteria Catholics.


:)

(09-20-2019, 09:23 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]And we are outnumbered heavily.


If you weren't it wouldn't be heroic, remember the mustard seed.

(09-20-2019, 09:23 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]And mostly abandoned by the clergy, all the way up to the bishop - who will stand for some things, but not others, and promotes the "Charismatic Renewal".

And I would argue all the way to Francis who IMO was not canonically elected for the proving of the elect. The test for the faithful and the exposing of the wolves, on a positive note, never IMO has it been easier to spot wolves in sheep's clothing, since this is the era in which they are emboldened like never before.

(09-20-2019, 09:23 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]Like one really good older Catholic lady I knew said - The Cafeteria is CLOSED!

Nice. :)

(09-20-2019, 09:23 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]It's crazy.

x2

I attend a NO Mass since there is no alternative, and the Priest is good (and we must continue to pray for them), but considering the state of the Church today, someone could be sitting in the pew next to me and be diametrically opposed to everything I stand for and it's like we are playing pretend, but I receive communion on one knee and on the tongue from Father only so they know where I stand without me needing to say a word.

God Bless You
(09-20-2019, 09:23 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]Oh - we are starting to push back on the liberals and modernists, and Cafeteria Catholics.  And we are outnumbered heavily.  And mostly abandoned by the clergy, all the way up to the bishop - who will stand for some things, but not others, and promotes the "Charismatic Renewal".  

Like one really good older Catholic lady I knew said - The Cafeteria is CLOSED!

It's crazy.

Are you referring to a group of traditional or conservative Catholics at your parish?  If there's a group of you, even if it is small, you might look into finding a traditional priest who can start coming to your area to say the TLM on occasion.  It might be the start to a permanent traditionalist parish or chapel in your diocese.  It probably won't be easy, but you seem like you're determined and up to a challenge.  It might be worth looking into, discussing with others in your circle.
(09-20-2019, 08:54 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]So for years the Church has taught against private interpretation of Scripture.  I have seen the come full circle into backfire.

I recently have been in debate at parish council and liturgy meetings - debate with mixed up liberal "catholics".  When you show them Biblical reasons for things they totally blow it off saying - "Well that's your interpretation of the Bible".

In some cases it's less clear - but others - it is very clear.  So it feels like this conditioning of Catholics that nobody outside of clergy can use the Bible is really blowing up in our faces here.  And the problem was actually stated out loud that we have a poorly formed Bishop and clergy here (if you have seen my other post on how they allowed a Masonic "funeral" service in the church building).  

So we are ONLY left with sound laity to steer the ship.

Wow - what would you do?  BTW - no, there is not a single TLM or Eastern parish in the whole diocese.
 
1) I've never heard anywhere that "nobody outside of clergy can use the Bible." The opposite is true.

2) I'm not seeing how liberals' blowing off of Biblical reasons for something means that the traditional understanding of how to see Sacred Scripture leads to bad results ("backfire"). It's not a matter of "'your' interpretation" that matters; it's the Church's interpretation that does, and that can be known not by how some Fr. James Martin type wants it to be, but by looking at how the Church has understood it for 2,000 years. IOW, Tradition and the Magisterium are being forgotten here. 

3) As to what I'd do: I'd leave the NO behind entirely and go 100% trad, whether through the FSSP/ICK/other diocesan route or SSPX, and if none is available, try to find interested Catholics to get a TLM set up (see https://www.fisheaters.com/tlmsetup.html ). At the very least I'd give no money to a liberal parish; I'd send my money to a trad parish/trad chapel/trad apostolate, even if it's far away from me geographically.
(09-20-2019, 08:54 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]So it feels like this conditioning of Catholics that nobody outside of clergy can use the Bible is really blowing up in our faces here. 

What are you talking about?! The Church has, for centuries, offered indulgences for reading the Bible in an effort to encourage non-clerics to read Scripture.

If you mean to interpret it, only the Magisterium can do that, not every Tom, Dick, and Harry in a clerical collar.
(09-20-2019, 07:08 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-20-2019, 08:54 AM)Markie Boy Wrote: [ -> ]So it feels like this conditioning of Catholics that nobody outside of clergy can use the Bible is really blowing up in our faces here. 

What are you talking about?! The Church has, for centuries, offered indulgences for reading the Bible in an effort to encourage non-clerics to read Scripture.

If you mean to interpret it, only the Magisterium can do that, not every Tom, Dick, and Harry in a clerical collar.


I have seen a priest challenge people saying - Can you interpret the Gospels??  Yes I can.  When I read my brain takes it in and processes and keep trying to understand deeper.  I do look outside for guidance when things are less clear.  But I'm seeing Catholics conditioned to reject what anyone tells them based on this concept - even if it's a well studied, orthodox person.

In contrast, many of these people are not well studied enough to know when Fr. so and so is way off base, or leaving out the hard teachings that are the true lessons in a particular passage.
What was the specific issue they were debating you on?

God Bless You
We were debating on getting rid of the Oregon Catholic Press missalettes and prayer intention books.

The debate got into all the heretical statements in the songs, and the fact that the authors of many of the songs are either homosexual or promote that lifestyle.

The doctrinal stuff, nobody cared about, and the fact that we shouldn't try to praise God with music by those rebelling against Him not a single person seemed to think that was important.
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