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Full Version: Should I give up trying to change my local parish?
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Following my last attempt at attending a local diocesan parish, I decided to make the switch to SSPX, mostly for the sake of my child coming in a few months and a refusal to introduce her into the hellish world of the Novus Ordo and its concomitant confusion, ambiguity, etc.  I never want her to have to deal with the stupid and unnecessary struggles I went through as a result of going to Catholic school and listening to their apologetics.

So where I will attend Mass is a done deal.  Never going back.  

Now, I have sitting in my inbox an email from the priest at that local parish, asking if I wanted to meet to talk about my requests for the TLM or a traditionalist group.  So what to do?  I feel like the meeting will essentially be an attempt at placation, because I know that the parish has no intention of sanctioning anything with the whiff of traditionalism (or, at least I'm reasonably sure).  I don't want to be further dragged into some half-measure situation where they put me to work for them so that someone like me can be visible and attractive to other younger people - "here lead this young adult group and talk about conservative stuff, but just don't request the TLM."  There aren't enough hours in the day for that and any time I put into the church is going to be in the church I actually go to.  With that said, the SSPX church is 1.5 hours away, so it's not like time at the church 10 min down the road would otherwise be spent at the SSPX parish.

And, I feel guilty turning down this olive branch and not exercising a positive influence where I can.

I was thinking maybe we could do a Choose Your Own Adventure type of thing.  You all could tell me what to do, and then I'll do it and report back to you about the results.  It could be fun and enlightening for others trying to make a change.  Otherwise, I'm probably just going to delete the email and move on.  I feel like we could all have some laughs and a "fun time for all" could be had.
Depends. Has the diocese allowed TLM at another parish? Has the priest ever celebrated the TLM? How many people would attend a TLM at this parish? This are questions that you and the priest must know.
I think I would go and speak with him.  You're under no obligation to accept anything he requests, e.g. running a young adults group, but you might also be surprised with where the conversation leads.  He's granting you an audience, so I say go and present with uncompromising respect and charity your desire for the Latin Mass, as well as a concrete plan of how one could be implemented in the parish with the resources they currently have and without affecting their extant Mass schedule. Don't go into any tangent of comparing the rites or criticising the NO; it'll likely spoil the entire endeavour. And if he declines, or tries to convince you away from it, receive it with good grace and leave a good impression on him of your balanced and charitable nature. That way, there's no harm to you if the meeting doesn't go your way, but the potential for much good regardless of which way it goes.
Why don't you arrange to meet with him along with the SSPX priest at the chapel you've been attending.

It might be a good opportunity for you to express your problems, but also propose a practical solution, because if the SSPX priest is along with you, even if you're the one speaking and expressing, you can explain that the lack of this, and the SSPX's willingness to provide for your needs is why you've gone to them. It will be impossible for the parish priest to then say, as is so common, "Well, I'd love to help you, but we don't have any priests that know the Latin Mass, and it will take time to find one." You can reply, "Nope. Father here is happy to say the Mass occasionally, or even train a willing priest."

This also allows the SSPX priest to show a real interest in helping the parish priest to practice his priesthood and care for souls. That's really the mission of the SSPX. The other things it does are simply because there was a need and this need is attached to forming good priests.

I've known SSPX priests to offer to teach local priests how to say the Traditional Mass, offer help in studying traditional philosophy and theology and even lend out the necessities to facilitate this. If the parish priest is really interested in starting a regular TLM, then by bringing the SSPX priest you make this much more likely.

And if the parish priest does decide to do this, by meeting the SSPX priest, one of two things will happen. Either he will accept the help and coordinate with the SSPX priest to provide a TLM which is not in competition with the SSPX, or he will show his vitriol for the SSPX in the meeting and provide a TLM which is in competition, and then you and others will clearly know the motives for this, and can make this clear to others.

So, I'd speak to your SSPX priest, explain the situation, say that you're thinking of meeting just to see what's on the table, but really would like him to come with you to meet with this priest.
Honestly I would just make the transition over to the SSPX chapel. If it's possible for a person to entirely avoid the Novus Ordo, they really ought to do so in my opinion.

Even if the parish priest allows a TLM, that does not in any way mean he is going to teach the orthodox Catholic faith. The SSPX, or any other traditional apostolate, is a much safer bet. I attend an oratory of the Institute of Christ the King, and I would never again attend a regular diocesan N.O. parish. I see very little good fruit coming out of trying to change a local N.O. parish to be quite honest with you.

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(10-14-2019, 04:38 PM)1Faith Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly I would just make the transition over to the SSPX chapel. If it's possible for a person to entirely avoid the Novus Ordo, they really ought to do so in my opinion.

Even if the parish priest allows a TLM, that does not in any way mean he is going to teach the orthodox Catholic faith. The SSPX, or any other traditional apostolate, is a much safer bet. I attend an oratory of the Institute of Christ the King, and I would never again attend a regular diocesan N.O. parish. I see very little good fruit coming out of trying to change a local N.O. parish to be quite honest with you.

Well ICT did say he was set on not going back to the parish.

I was thinking that this was perhaps a means of putting the parish priest in contact with the SSPX, and in doing so either helping him become a better priest by giving him a good priest to help him if he wants, or by forcing him to put his cards on the table.

It's not for ICT's benefit, but for the priest and the parish he's left.
I’d meet with him. It’s a good sign that he’s at least willing to meet with you. When a priest cares about you that much, let him.
(10-14-2019, 04:38 PM)1Faith Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly I would just make the transition over to the SSPX chapel.

Yep, why reinvent the wheel?

Three hours extra per week is a small price to pay.
:villagepeeps:
ALRIGHT CHAPTER ONE IS NOW FINISHED.  I WILL TAKE MY FIRST STEP AND PROVIDE AN UPDATE ONCE PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE. 
:villagepeeps:



Look at what a fun time we're all having.  It's like a Catholic version of Dungeons and Dragons.
Looking forward to the update. To a degree, there needs to be a "reverse infiltration" of Traditional Catholics into NO Parishes, or at least into the minds of NO Catholics, to grow the Traditional movement. Taking a passive approach, waiting for others to "see the light" so to speak, can only go so far. Eventually the growth of Traditional parishes will stall out unless more proactive tactics are used.

Hopefully the meeting goes well. Many NO priests are steamrolled by the parish women, so I pray that your idea is successful.
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