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(10-16-2019, 02:35 PM)jack89 Wrote: [ -> ]Bonaventure,
I was simply pointing out that with enough influence and enough time, a word can lose it's original meaning.  I wasn't trying to endorse liberalism in any of it's varied meanings.  It was an analogy.

For many years, while in 'conservative' circles, I would often hear others say "I'm a 'liberal' in the classical sense, and not the modern one," and then they would invariably state their (favorable) opinion of the founding fathers, etc. In that regard, I was left with impression that considering oneself a 'classical liberal' to mean a net positive, especially as an American. But even that is incorrect, from a Catholic perspective. So, while I understood your analogy (and had no intention to imply that you support liberalism in any form), I believe even the term 'classical liberalism' has been somewhat hijacked by 'conservatives', which is quite ironic considering, from an historical perspective, classical liberals were always at odds with conservatives.
(10-16-2019, 02:43 PM)Bonaventure Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-16-2019, 02:35 PM)jack89 Wrote: [ -> ]Bonaventure,
I was simply pointing out that with enough influence and enough time, a word can lose it's original meaning.  I wasn't trying to endorse liberalism in any of it's varied meanings.  It was an analogy.

For many years, while in 'conservative' circles, I would often here others say "I'm a 'liberal' in the classical sense, and not the modern one," and then they would invariably state their (favorable) opinion of the founding fathers, etc.  In that regard, I was left with impression that considering oneself a 'classical liberal' to mean a net positive, especially as an American.  But even that is incorrect, from a Catholic perspective.  So, while I understood your analogy (and had no intention to imply that you support liberalism in any form), I believe even the term 'classical liberalism' has been somewhat hijacked by 'conservatives', which is quite ironic considering, from an historical perspective, classical liberals were always at odds with conservatives.

Agreed, and further supports my analogy.  I had my libertarian, classical liberal, phase I went through.  That's where it came from.  It passed.
These feelings aren’t anything new.
St. Jeremiah knew all about it.

And thou shalt speak this word to them: Let my eyes shed down tears night and day, and let them not cease, because the virgin daughter of my people is afflicted with a great affliction, with an exceeding grievous evil. [18] If I go forth into the fields, behold the slain with the sword: and if I enter into the city, behold them that are consumed with famine. The prophet also and the priest are gone into a land which they knew not. [19] Hast thou utterly cast away Juda, or hath thy soul abhorred Sion? why then hast thou struck us, so that there is no healing for us? we have looked for peace, and there is no good: and for the time of healing, and behold trouble. [20] We acknowledge, O Lord, our wickedness, the iniquities of our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.
(10-16-2019, 12:59 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: I know you are a convert.  Were you ever a part of a church before?  Have you ever belonged to a real life, local group where you were closely connected to others, likely your same age, who attend the same parish and share your faith, i.e., that you can talk to and hang out with and do church stuff together?  Where your kids can play with their kids, etc.? 

The most church I had was as a Methodist for about 3 years as a kid, otherwise I avoided Christianity like the plague until around 2017. As of right now, I have no friends who are Catholics, my wife is non-religious, my sister, my parents are all irreligious. I'm basically alone in this. My godfather moved to England right after I was baptized/confirmed. So all I've had to lean on for any sort of Catholic social networking are places like this forum. Otherwise it's a lot of reading and praying on my own at home.
(10-16-2019, 05:38 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]The most church I had was as a Methodist for about 3 years as a kid, otherwise I avoided Christianity like the plague until around 2017. As of right now, I have no friends who are Catholics, my wife is non-religious, my sister, my parents are all irreligious. I'm basically alone in this. My godfather moved to England right after I was baptized/confirmed. So all I've had to lean on for any sort of Catholic social networking are places like this forum. Otherwise it's a lot of reading and praying on my own at home.

I get you.  That sounds challenging.  Although, in some ways the complete indifference to religion around you can be better than outright hostility, for instance, if your entire family were evangelicals who thought you were damning yourself.  Do you get the sense that the SSPX parish could be a place where you could really build a life?  Do you get warm and fuzzy feelings from it?  Are there any other people your age there?  Do they have kids?  Also: Do they have some sort of religious education for your kids?

The part about your wife is a little tricky too.  Obviously, you know that situation and I do not; I feel as though if you are able to really enmesh yourself in a community at this parish where you make friends and share a life with your kids, then that will be the best possible scenario for coaxing your wife into coming along eventually.

I think my advice would be to get to know someone at the parish you choose as soon as possible.  At the SSPX one, I might just talk to the priest and ask if he can connect you with someone approximately your age or especially who has kids of a similar age.  In my experience, priests are usually happy to do this and typically have someone in mind.  That can be a fairly graceful way of getting your foot in the door of the community.

Again, I know all this isn't entirely related to your OP, but I firmly believe this is the step you need to take to resolve the issues you are grappling with.
(10-16-2019, 05:38 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-16-2019, 12:59 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: I know you are a convert.  Were you ever a part of a church before?  Have you ever belonged to a real life, local group where you were closely connected to others, likely your same age, who attend the same parish and share your faith, i.e., that you can talk to and hang out with and do church stuff together?  Where your kids can play with their kids, etc.? 

The most church I had was as a Methodist for about 3 years as a kid, otherwise I avoided Christianity like the plague until around 2017. As of right now, I have no friends who are Catholics, my wife is non-religious, my sister, my parents are all irreligious. I'm basically alone in this. My godfather moved to England right after I was baptized/confirmed. So all I've had to lean on for any sort of Catholic social networking are places like this forum. Otherwise it's a lot of reading and praying on my own at home.
Can you volunteer at church, or take a Bible Study class? Our Bible Study was always rather weak on substance, but both were good ways for me to have friendly faces at Mass.
(10-16-2019, 05:38 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-16-2019, 12:59 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: I know you are a convert.  Were you ever a part of a church before?  Have you ever belonged to a real life, local group where you were closely connected to others, likely your same age, who attend the same parish and share your faith, i.e., that you can talk to and hang out with and do church stuff together?  Where your kids can play with their kids, etc.? 

The most church I had was as a Methodist for about 3 years as a kid, otherwise I avoided Christianity like the plague until around 2017. As of right now, I have no friends who are Catholics, my wife is non-religious, my sister, my parents are all irreligious. I'm basically alone in this. My godfather moved to England right after I was baptized/confirmed. So all I've had to lean on for any sort of Catholic social networking are places like this forum. Otherwise it's a lot of reading and praying on my own at home.

You aren't alone.  :)
(10-16-2019, 08:54 PM)JacafamalaRedux Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-16-2019, 05:38 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-16-2019, 12:59 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: I know you are a convert.  Were you ever a part of a church before?  Have you ever belonged to a real life, local group where you were closely connected to others, likely your same age, who attend the same parish and share your faith, i.e., that you can talk to and hang out with and do church stuff together?  Where your kids can play with their kids, etc.? 

The most church I had was as a Methodist for about 3 years as a kid, otherwise I avoided Christianity like the plague until around 2017. As of right now, I have no friends who are Catholics, my wife is non-religious, my sister, my parents are all irreligious. I'm basically alone in this. My godfather moved to England right after I was baptized/confirmed. So all I've had to lean on for any sort of Catholic social networking are places like this forum. Otherwise it's a lot of reading and praying on my own at home.

You aren't alone.  :)

:D I see what you did there.
(10-16-2019, 11:13 AM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]Your words are consoling, thank you for that. Just now I was brought comfort while reading Matthew as well: "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

I just need to humble myself and accept that although the Church may be but a small remnant, Christ will still be present.

I think maybe I need to take a break from the current news cycle and forums for a bit and focus on more spiritual reading and prayer...

I understand how you feel. As much as I want to discuss issues of faith and keep abreast of all the latest happenings and scandals within the Church, I often feel more confused and exhausted than enlightened by it all. Rather than providing me with clear answers of where I stand and what I should do, all the time I spend absorbing this information usually only leads to an increase in doubts and anxiety. Like you, I feel the need to just break with it all (I already gave up Twitter for this reason) and focus on what is truly important: prayer and spiritual reading, as you say. It's been too long since I read something spiritual purely for enjoyment, not for any polemical reasons. While it may be important to stay informed and I definitely don't want to simply bury my head in the sand, ultimately there's very little I or any layperson can do in regards to these huge problems within the Church. All we can do is pray and stay close to Christ, and that's what I really need to focus on and strengthen in my life.
This is a really good thread and I want to write more, but it's late.

The confusion out there is real. It's hard for me to say with a straight face that the current institutional Church reflects the ancient traditions and constant teachings of the faith.

Aside from the occasional anti-abortion comment from the Vatican, everything else it champions falls in line with the wish list of every far-left secular politician: open borders, women "empowerment," climate activism, catering to the "LGBT" crowd (who supposedly here in the US have "LGBT" history month in October, so I guess June being "pride month" isn't enough), the USCCB constantly harping on "racism" (I guess to address the .000001% of actual racist Catholics), the constant call to heed the "wisdom of youth," downplaying or outright denying the reality of evil, etc.

Today's Church is content and comfortable to be "one who listens." This attitude falls in line with the Pope's exaggerated, hypocritical, and erroneous notion of humility. If the Church meant "listening" in the sense that it was trying to understand how to teach the true Gospel to people, that would be great. But it doesn't mean it that way. The modern use of "listening" to the wayward fools in the Vatican means, "we are not right in everything we teach; we've made embarrassing mistakes in the past to the detriment of humanity; we are not the owners of truth and our claim to receive divine guidance was arrogant; please forgive us; accept this humble apology, and we promise to listen to you because now we admit that you know better than us; now, our willingness and ability to change with the times and according to voices in opposition to the faith is a sign of strength and maturity; we are so very wise to admit we were wrong and change, see?"

The result is a weak and timid Church, one constantly on the precipice of change and innovation, consisting of parishes filled with misguided "Doormat Catholics" who are being steamrolled by the culture.
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