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So I had to work today & miss all the TLM’s where I always go. I went to Mass there yesterday morning and the third wonderful, seemingly very holy priest I’ve asked about it has said that in order to fulfill my Sunday obligation, I have to find a Mass after 4p.m. on Saturday, or an evening Mass tonight — which, in my area means an NO Mass... whine whine whine... Mass is my favorite place on Earth to be, so long as it’s not the N.O., and while these lovely traditional priests sympathize, they still say i must go when necessary. So I am going to an evening NO nearby in a few minutes, and my question is whether it’s wrong to choose not to receive based on simply finding it so very uncomfortable to walk up and receive standing, giving a little perfunctory bend of the waist, making sure to get in the priest’s line... all after enduring the McDonald’s drive-thru Mass, the people doing orans hands, the schmaltzy protestant guitar “hymns”, the dread  social “peace” outburst... or should I receive?? It feels like an insult to the Lord, or am I just being willful?

(11-10-2019, 06:42 PM)Margaret-Mary Wrote: [ -> ]So I had to work today & miss all the TLM’s where I always go. I went to Mass there yesterday morning and the third wonderful, seemingly very holy priest I’ve asked about it has said that in order to fulfill my Sunday obligation, I have to find a Mass after 4p.m. on Saturday, or an evening Mass tonight — which, in my area means an NO Mass... whine whine whine... Mass is my favorite place on Earth to be, so long as it’s not the N.O., and while these lovely traditional priests sympathize, they still say i must go when necessary. So I am going to an evening NO nearby in a few minutes, and my question is whether it’s wrong to choose not to receive based on simply finding it so very uncomfortable to walk up and receive standing, giving a little perfunctory bend of the waist, making sure to get in the priest’s line... all after enduring the McDonald’s drive-thru Mass, the people doing orans hands, the schmaltzy protestant guitar “hymns”, the dread  social “peace” outburst... or should I receive?? It feels like an insult to the Lord, or am I just being willful?

Which brand of TLM do you attend?  I know SSPX wouldn't take this line, and I forget what the FSSP stance is.  I feel like I remember an FSSP priest telling me it was better not to go to the NO and instead not go at all, but it's been over a year so my memory could be incorrect.

(11-10-2019, 06:55 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-10-2019, 06:42 PM)Margaret-Mary Wrote: [ -> ]So I had to work today & miss all the TLM’s where I always go. I went to Mass there yesterday morning and the third wonderful, seemingly very holy priest I’ve asked about it has said that in order to fulfill my Sunday obligation, I have to find a Mass after 4p.m. on Saturday, or an evening Mass tonight — which, in my area means an NO Mass... whine whine whine... Mass is my favorite place on Earth to be, so long as it’s not the N.O., and while these lovely traditional priests sympathize, they still say i must go when necessary. So I am going to an evening NO nearby in a few minutes, and my question is whether it’s wrong to choose not to receive based on simply finding it so very uncomfortable to walk up and receive standing, giving a little perfunctory bend of the waist, making sure to get in the priest’s line... all after enduring the McDonald’s drive-thru Mass, the people doing orans hands, the schmaltzy protestant guitar “hymns”, the dread  social “peace” outburst... or should I receive?? It feels like an insult to the Lord, or am I just being willful?

Which brand of TLM do you attend?  I know SSPX wouldn't take this line, and I forget what the FSSP stance is.  I feel like I remember an FSSP priest telling me it was better not to go to the NO and instead not go at all, but it's been over a year so my memory could be incorrect.

FSSP priest are personally highly varied on this point.

So are SSPX priests.

I know some FSSP priests who tow the more-SSPX line of avoiding the NO unless you think yourself in conscience obliged. I know other FSSP priests who insist that it is always a grave sin to avoid even if it's a "happy clappy" NO Mass. Usually the latter are the ones who say attending an SSPX Mass is a mortal sin as well.

I know SSPX priests who will say that a reverent NO Mass is not sinful to attend, but not the best idea. I know some who think it a mortal sin to attend.

I take a mid-way point between extremes for myself, and can speak only for my own conscience after reflection. I cannot, and would not bind people to accept my own personal opinion on this.

That personal opinion. I make the case against the NO from an objective deficit that allows things which can harm our Faith. There are inherent problems with the rite itself, and so it is objectively lacking. That said, some priests add sufficiently back to the NO liturgy some elements and context which might remedy this, but that's a case-by-case situation. There are principles, but they have to be applied to every concrete situation. It is hard, therefore, to make any general judgement.

The question in my book is whether there is a danger to one's Faith by attending. If there is, one must omit it under pain of grave sin. If there is not, one must go under pain of grave sin. It is a decision every person has to take after a reflection on their own informed conscience (because this is what will determine which option must be chosen). That conscience needs to be truly informed, however, so when the question arises, study needs to be done and advice taken from various camps.

Too many priests (and laity) fall too far to the extremes, trying to over-generalize the cases.

Jovan is right, though. There is no need to receive Communion except once per year during Eastertide (First Sunday of Lent through Trinity Sunday in the U.S.). If you feel uncomfortable, or you have fallen into sin, or even if you think you will gain a longing for the Sacrament by making a Spiritual Communion only, you are well to do that.

Like the others have said, there is no moral obligation to receive the sacred species EXCEPT once per year during the Easter season (Easter duty).

I hear mass exclusively at a Missa Paulina parish.  I find that offering the rosary throughout helps get through; usually I can make all 150 aves.  I like to think of being in solidarity with Our Lord in the tabernacle who is dragged to the altar for each of these masses, when the consecration is valid.

(11-10-2019, 06:55 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]Which brand of TLM do you attend?  I know SSPX wouldn't take this line, and I forget what the FSSP stance is.  I feel like I remember an FSSP priest telling me it was better not to go to the NO and instead not go at all, but it's been over a year so my memory could be incorrect.

Very beautiful and holy Benedictine Monastery chapel, has only ever offered TLM.

(11-10-2019, 07:19 PM)Hi  MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ][quote pid='1407343' dateline='1573426558']
FSSP priest are personally highly varied on this point.

So are SSPX priests.

I know some FSSP priests who tow the more-SSPX line of avoiding the NO unless you think yourself in conscience obliged. I know other FSSP priests who insist that it is always a grave sin to avoid even if it's a "happy clappy" NO Mass. Usually the latter are the ones who say attending an SSPX Mass is a mortal sin as well.

I know SSPX priests who will say that a reverent NO Mass is not sinful to attend, but not the best idea. I know some who think it a mortal sin to attend.

I take a mid-way point between extremes for myself, and can speak only for my own conscience after reflection. I cannot, and would not bind people to accept my own personal opinion on this.

That personal opinion. I make the case against the NO from an objective deficit that allows things which can harm our Faith. There are inherent problems with the rite itself, and so it is objectively lacking. That said, some priests add sufficiently back to the NO liturgy some elements and context which might remedy this, but that's a case-by-case situation. There are principles, but they have to be applied to every concrete situation. It is hard, therefore, to make any general judgement.

The question in my book is whether there is a danger to one's Faith by attending. If there is, one must omit it under pain of grave sin. If there is not, one must go under pain of grave sin. It is a decision every person has to take after a reflection on their own informed conscience (because this is what will determine which option must be chosen). That conscience needs to be truly informed, however, so when the question arises, study needs to be done and advice taken from various camps.

Too many priests (and laity) fall too far to the extremes, trying to over-generalize the cases.

Jovan is right, though. There is no need to receive Communion except once per year during Eastertide (First Sunday of Lent through Trinity Sunday in the U.S.). If you feel uncomfortable, or you have fallen into sin, or even if you think you will gain a longing for the Sacrament by making a Spiritual Communion only, you are well to do that.
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Thank you for your reply. This is a reply to everyone since it’s very time-consuming to type in my phone. Sorry for the formatting problems. 

Personally, it is no danger to my faith at this point to go to an NO Mass, but as Jovan implied, it’s a danger to my mood. I try to go to ones that i know to be the more reverent options, but like you said, the NO, itself has problems, regardless of how “well” it’s done. There are so many ironies inherent in it...  

It is also important to me to be obedient to my traditional priests, especially the one whose 
Masses I regularly go to. I trust him, he is a holy priest and I consider him my spiritual father, so it’s kind of like doing it for him and as a way of thanking God for the gift of him. 

So I didn’t know whether I’d receive or not (I do understand the technical obligation — my concern was whether it would be arrogant or displeasing to the Lord to refuse to receive Him.). But when I saw the overly-heartfelt singer lady put up her hands to receive, it felt like something awful went straight through me, and my eyes literally had to look away. So having heard Mass, I decided to leave. But when i got to my car, it was blocked in on all sides by other cars.  I waited a while and then thought, maybe i can make a kind of reparation for all the CITH by going back in and receiving the Lord on my tongue, so I did. 

(11-10-2019, 08:28 PM)yablabo Wrote: [ -> ]Like the others have said, there is no moral obligation to receive the sacred species EXCEPT once per year during the Easter season (Easter duty).

I hear mass exclusively at a Missa Paulina parish.  I find that offering the rosary throughout helps get through; usually I can make all 150 aves.  I like to think of being in solidarity with Our Lord in the tabernacle who is dragged to the altar for each of these masses, when the consecration is valid.

Yes, I think of it that way too. He has to be there, so we can keep Him company and try to console Him.

Wasn't aware there was as much diversity of opinion among the SSPX but it doesn't surprise me. Unfortunately I'm far too poorly catechized to go to the NO. I still suffer from decades of Catholic school and the implicit worldview of the NO. I can spot many issues with it, but not all of them, and there is a lot of insidious error to be found. A lot.

There's also the issue of children, and this seems overlooked in this discussion thus far. Just because I might want to smoke a cigarette doesn't mean I'd let my child. It doesn't mean it's good for me either even if I can "handle it" or want to indulge every now and then because it's quick and easy. It's not something that I want to model either... Smoking or attending the NO. Best case scenario I was expertly catechized and capable of deflecting every little error thrown at me at the NO, and like some kind of agile ninja, dodge every last line of BS, lunging through the air to land on two knees to receive communion on the tongue and get out of there.

That still doesn't make it ok to mess up my kid's life by exposing her to it. I mean, I feel pretty confident on this point if nothing else

Edit: I mean, you've all seen me post. I say a lot of incorrect things that easily fall into heresy, and I know basically nothing. My attitude is rough at best, and don't even get me started on the pornography usage. There's no way I am occasional NO attendance material.

(11-10-2019, 09:58 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]Wasn't aware there was as much diversity of opinion among the SSPX but it doesn't surprise me. Unfortunately I'm far too poorly catechized to go to the NO. I still suffer from decades of Catholic school and the implicit worldview of the NO. I can spot many issues with it, but not all of them, and there is a lot of insidious error to be found. A lot.

There's also the issue of children, and this seems overlooked in this discussion thus far. Just because I might want to smoke a cigarette doesn't mean I'd let my child. It doesn't mean it's good for me either even if I can "handle it" or want to indulge every now and then because it's quick and easy. It's not something that I want to model either... Smoking or attending the NO. Best case scenario I was expertly catechized and capable of deflecting every little error thrown at me at the NO, and like some kind of agile ninja, dodge every last line of BS, lunging through the air to land on two knees to receive communion on the tongue and get out of there.

That still doesn't make it ok to mess up my kid's life by exposing her to it. I mean, I feel pretty confident on this point if nothing else

Edit: I mean, you've all seen me post. I say a lot of incorrect things that easily fall into heresy, and I know basically nothing. My attitude is rough at best, and don't even get me started on the pornography usage. There's no way I am occasional NO attendance material.

When I converted I was 43, with three kids, ages 16, 6 and 3. I only knew of the NO, and I took my little ones to it (16 y.o. had no interest, couldn’t/wouldn’t force him). I wish I’d known there was such a thing as the TLM! The two youngest ones, baptized & received FHC and attended most Sundays with me, when it came time for Confirmation, they both refused — I believe there was just not enough truth and holiness there to compel them. So I am totally with you. As for myself, it’s only now that I’ve been going to the monastery for about 3.5 years and having my faith more fully formed by that and the further learning I’ve received, and most importantly, making my Total Consecration to Mary, and borrowing the holiness from the Brothers, Sisters, and Priests there, and having The Sacred Heart enthroned in my home... also coming to understand much more what’s really behind the NO (for the entire 12 years i went to it, I always felt sad and that something(s) was wrong, but couldn’t fully grasp what it was) — so only pretty recently do I feel able to endure the NO without it touching my faith — actually now it just affirms that I am on the right path at the tradtional Mass. And I avoid the NO , unless it is necessary.