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I've been looking more and more into the SSPX and see a lot of good.  I think I now get why Archbishop Lefebvre did what he did and why the SSPX can't completely reconcile with Rome.  To do so would eventually allow Pope Francis, or another pope, to institute unwanted changes.  In light of the current crisis in the Church, that's not such a good idea. 

Saying that, It is by no means perfect and there may be long lasting problems from the strained relationship.

I see a lot of pros with the SSPX, but like many, I have a tendency to gloss over the cons if I think I like something.  If you have insight on particular problems with the organization, please share your thought, it would be most helpful.

Cheers and God Bless.
As you probably know, Jack, I'm a big proponent of #Unitetheclans so I think very highly of the SSPX.

Unfortunately, there have been some really unfortunate events that have caused division and lingering bad feelings between them and the FSSP.

I was friends with this FSSP priest who had a very bad experience with the SSPX many years ago (during the 90's) and verified they were true at dinner at my house.  It is my sincerest hope that we can hopefully heal the wounds caused by his experience and move into greater understanding and charity in the future.

http://thetraditionalcatholicfaith.blogs...rizzo.html


#Unitetheclans    !!
I attended masses at SSPX for over 10 years. I started at a mission in Utah that was held at a hotel, with confession in a closet. The priest flew out once a month from LA. He wasn’t SSPX, he just wanted to help out. Wonderful priest, wonderful welcoming people. I then moved to the Pacific Northwest and attended an SSPX chapel that was vibrant, overflowing with people. I even became a Third Order member. I loved it. I was confirmed by Bishop Tissier and met Bishop Fellay. Good, holy and humble people.

Of course, like any place with humans, there were a few, um, not nice people. Very rigid and uncharitable. Thankfully, most of them left when Bishop Williamson left the Society. Please pray for them. The biggest con I can think of with the Society is that it has been everyone’s whipping boy for so long people tend to get defensive and “circle the wagons”.

On the other side of the SSPX/FSSP row, our little chapel in the PNW was thriving when the FSSP moved in to the area. There were many people who were happy to attend both. Then the FSSP priest started saying a Mass within 10 minutes of our chapel to eliminate the “state of necessity” we had. There were many people frightened into thinking their confessions and marriages were not valid. *sigh*

I don’t know if that all got straightened out, as I had fallen away from the Faith for about 5 years. It had nothing to do with the SSPX. Wow, a lot happened in that time. I moved and the nearest SSPX chapel is over 3 hours away. So, I started attending a wonderful Byzantine monastery. Wonderful monks. I thought I found a home until I met the parishioners. (Only about 3 or 4 families attend, the monastery is only a few years old) I was under the impression that all this Unite the Clans stuff meant traditional leaning Catholics had moved beyond all that silly us vs. them stuff. Well; I was greeted, asked where I had attended before. When I mentioned the SSPX, I started getting the lecture about “schismatic” “not a real Catholic” stuff. Someone handed me the book, Infiltration to read. Good book, but other than the stuff on Pope Francis, it was pretty much what the SSPX has been trying to tell everyone for the last almost 50 years. It was quite obvious I’m not welcome there.

So, my only option is to drive an hour away to the nearest diocesan TLM, twice a month. I tried to give the NO a chance around here and they are just awful. Can’t do it.

It is truly wonderful that God has provided so many options for the TLM in such a difficult time. I would say if you feel drawn there, go for it!
Here's a thing. 

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.p...hism-video

I've made my feelings clear on this topic elsewhere. My primary reasons for attending SSPX are the absence of any of my money going to a local diocese through them; also there is more explicit criticism of issues with the Church with less need for dancing around issues or being politically correct; I also think some deference is due to them because they are really the sole proponents of the TLM and the Church's magisterium to like... ever accomplish anything. Other Traditinal fraternities and the Vatican's positions on the TLM itself simply would not exist today were it not for the SSPX. I find that last point important; they are simply the most efficacious vehicle for change in the Church. These concerns are all extremely important to me and constitute the reason I chose then above anywhere else. They are not "theological" per se, but in my opinion they are very valuable reasons.

I have not had any issues with toxic trads but your mileage may vary. I had all those sorts of issues with FSSP instead. However, as I've also said, I think I had an especially bad time with them, a uniquely poor experience. 

I think I would go see if you get a good vibe from the closest SSPX chapel. If you like it, go there. If not, use an alternative. I always had the warmest, greatest feeling at the church I attend; it feels like it's where God wants me to be and raise a family. If I had felt that way about the nearest FSSP church, I'd be there instead, despite my respect for the SSPX. 

I also love Angelus Press, the SSPX publisher. Their materials and reprints of older books is invaluable to me.

EDIT. Thanks auto correct you are truly an amazing function. Not even gonna bother with typos tbhhhh
(11-16-2019, 06:35 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]Other Traditinal fraternities and the Vatican's positions on the TLM itself simply would not exist today were it not for the SSPX.

It is thanks to Archbishop Lefebvre more than any other individual that the Mass is now being celebrated throughout the world. Four hundred fifty priests in the SSPX alone. Without the Archbishop, there would be no Indult Masses, no Fraternity of St. Peter, no monastery at Le Barroux. One might hope that all those who now assist at the Tridentine Mass each Sunday outside the auspices of the SSPX would appreciate that they owe this inestimable privilege to Monsignor Lefebvre.
Michael Davies
(11-16-2019, 07:18 PM)Ioannes_L Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-16-2019, 06:35 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]Other Traditinal fraternities and the Vatican's positions on the TLM itself simply would not exist today were it not for the SSPX.

It is thanks to Archbishop Lefebvre more than any other individual that the Mass is now being celebrated throughout the world. Four hundred fifty priests in the SSPX alone. Without the Archbishop, there would be no Indult Masses, no Fraternity of St. Peter, no monastery at Le Barroux. One might hope that all those who now assist at the Tridentine Mass each Sunday outside the auspices of the SSPX would appreciate that they owe this inestimable privilege to Monsignor Lefebvre.
Michael Davies

I mean think about it.  The poor man suffered an excommunication (which is no longer in effect after death, at least that is my understanding) when he should be canonized as a saint.  I believe there will come a day when he will be.  I wonder what the FSSP would think about that.  They consider themselves as carrying on Abp. Lefebvre's work, so...?

Also thanks Ioannes for highlighting yet another typo my stupid phone made that I missed.
I totally agree with the previous posts. If there was an SSPX chapel within reasonable driving distance, I would be there in an instant. I just watched a video from Dr. Taylor Marshall and Michael Matt about the history of the Traditional Movement. They had nothing but praise for Archbishop Lefebvre and what he sacrificed for the Faith. I actually cried because he has been so maligned by so many in the Church. I’m glad they made that video because there were a lot of comments from people who had no idea what really happened. 
(11-16-2019, 08:05 PM)ritaguadalupe93 Wrote: [ -> ]I totally agree with the previous posts. If there was an SSPX chapel within reasonable driving distance, I would be there in an instant. I just watched a video from Dr. Taylor Marshall and Michael Matt about the history of the Traditional Movement. They had nothing but praise for Archbishop Lefebvre and what he sacrificed for the Faith. I actually cried because he has been so maligned by so many in the Church. I’m glad they made that video because there were a lot of comments from people who had no idea what really happened. 

Neat video.  Also, Lefebvre looked like a total chad when he was younger.  I would totally be ok with him talking down to me as an American tourist as he judged my poor French, smoking a cigarette and wearing a beret.
(11-16-2019, 07:31 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-16-2019, 07:18 PM)Ioannes_L Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-16-2019, 06:35 PM)Imperator Caesar Trump Wrote: [ -> ]Other Traditinal fraternities and the Vatican's positions on the TLM itself simply would not exist today were it not for the SSPX.

It is thanks to Archbishop Lefebvre more than any other individual that the Mass is now being celebrated throughout the world. Four hundred fifty priests in the SSPX alone. Without the Archbishop, there would be no Indult Masses, no Fraternity of St. Peter, no monastery at Le Barroux. One might hope that all those who now assist at the Tridentine Mass each Sunday outside the auspices of the SSPX would appreciate that they owe this inestimable privilege to Monsignor Lefebvre.
Michael Davies

I mean think about it.  The poor man suffered an excommunication (which is no longer in effect after death, at least that is my understanding) when he should be canonized as a saint.  I believe there will come a day when he will be.  I wonder what the FSSP would think about that.  They consider themselves as carrying on Abp. Lefebvre's work, so...?

Also thanks Ioannes for highlighting yet another typo my stupid phone made that I missed.
I have removed the end of his text, but since you mentioned it.

In my opinion, the Archbishop is a saint and will emerge with more credit than any other prelate when the history of these troubled times is written.
(11-16-2019, 02:31 PM)Sacred Heart Lover Wrote: [ -> ]I was friends with this FSSP priest who had a very bad experience with the SSPX many years ago (during the 90's) and verified they were true at dinner at my house.

http://thetraditionalcatholicfaith.blogs...rizzo.html


#Unitetheclans    !!

SHL, as I have no experience with the SSPX ... although they did establish nor far east of Los Angeles in Arcadia what must have been one of their first American chapels just a mile or two north of my parish when I was in jr. high 1973, if not even earlier, when we were all warned that breakaway enclave of lacy mantillistas and chant mumblers was schismatic...I wonder if the tension described in that article has eased? I do not doubt the veracity of Fr Rizzo, but 1995 is a generation ago as far as the Society, deep throat calls in the middle of the night, and internecine turf wars, seems to me? But I ask here as some of you may know current mindsets.

I remember in Catholic h.s. I was so curious about "the Lefebvrites" I purchased a little book by Yves Congar (!) about the Francophone fracas. It was all I could find back then in English. Came out in English as "Challenge to the Church" in 1977.

I live now nearer both a diocesan sponsored Sunday High Mass site and a FSSP mission Sunday Low Mass chapel, so I attend the latter. But that SSPX community of my childhood a few miles more distant must be thriving, for it's still there. If that was the only TLM around, I'd have checked it out. I bought Bp. Tisseray's big bio of Abp. Lefebvre recently, to learn for myself his story, after reading his "Open Letter to Confused Catholics." I am very sympathetic, but part of me has that guilty feeling...the admonitions of my formative years linger in my conscience... that if a "non-irregular" (?) service is available that is closer than a SSPX one, my "ordinary" duty is to choose that TLM instead.

Yet if someone invited me, I'd certainly see for myself. I've heard that some SSPX congregants can be tough on those outside their ranks who venture near, but then, ICT is somebody whose affirmation I'd trust. And I heartily support Unite the Clans, wanting reconciliation among all who love the TLM. Curious to hear more from you all about SSPX currently, and your honest opinions.
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