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This thought has been crossing my mind lately: does anyone else think there could be spiritual benefit of mortification by attending a Novus Ordo Mass?

Right now I exclusively attend TLM, and I know many of you do this as well, but in some ways it seems it leads to a sort of spiritual comfort, or complacency, within myself. I've been reading the Ascent of Mount Carmel and have noted St. John of the Cross' warnings against attachment not just to physical things, but spiritual too. Could this strict adherence to the TLM be identified as a sort of spiritual attachment? It made me wonder if perhaps I need to attend a Novus Ordo every so often to learn detachment. I have a couple of reverent NO parishes near me that I used to attend before finding my current SSPX parish. I was thinking about doing this just to stamp out any spiritual pride I may have of my current blessings.
(12-27-2019, 10:44 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]This thought has been crossing my mind lately: does anyone else think there could be spiritual benefit of mortification by attending a Novus Ordo Mass?

Right now I exclusively attend TLM, and I know many of you do this as well, but in some ways it seems it leads to a sort of spiritual comfort, or complacency, within myself. I've been reading the Ascent of Mount Carmel and have noted St. John of the Cross' warnings against attachment not just to physical things, but spiritual too. Could this strict adherence to the TLM be identified as a sort of spiritual attachment? It made me wonder if perhaps I need to attend a Novus Ordo every so often to learn detachment. I have a couple of reverent NO parishes near me that I used to attend before finding my current SSPX parish. I was thinking about doing this just to stamp out any spiritual pride I may have of my current blessings.

Yes, have thought about this a lot. When i have to go to the NO it is like a penance. The problem for me, though, is that it doesn’t exactly stamp out spiritual pride (though it may cause me to examine my attachment to the TLM) — it tends to make me feel angry. Not at all the poor people who have no other option or knowledge — I feel sad for them — but at the whole way the McDonalds-drive-thru mass is done, the Protestant-ness of it, how this has been allowed to take over, how robbed of the Tradition of the Church most Catholics have been... and I leave feeling that i’ve lost grace. Personally, I need the overflowing grace and holiness from the TLM I go to, so I try not to miss and to attend the NO only when necessary. But if you have the fortitude to do that voluntarily as an intentional mortification, then God bless you.
I would say no. A self-mottification is a worshipful act and since the liturgy is the worship, going to a different rite for worship one day will not be mortifying. Perhaps refrain from the Eucharist one Sunday if you are feeling spiritually prideful is what I would recommend.
(12-27-2019, 10:44 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]This thought has been crossing my mind lately: does anyone else think there could be spiritual benefit of mortification by attending a Novus Ordo Mass?

Right now I exclusively attend TLM, and I know many of you do this as well, but in some ways it seems it leads to a sort of spiritual comfort, or complacency, within myself. I've been reading the Ascent of Mount Carmel and have noted St. John of the Cross' warnings against attachment not just to physical things, but spiritual too. Could this strict adherence to the TLM be identified as a sort of spiritual attachment? It made me wonder if perhaps I need to attend a Novus Ordo every so often to learn detachment. I have a couple of reverent NO parishes near me that I used to attend before finding my current SSPX parish. I was thinking about doing this just to stamp out any spiritual pride I may have of my current blessings.

To be honest, and I say this with charity, I think it approaches spiritual pride to decide that attending the Ordinary Form Mass, where Christ is truly present, as a type of "mortification."  As if Jesus is somehow more fully present in the TLM than He is at the OF Mass  Furthermore, if the OF Masses near you are reverent anyway, I'm not sure how much "mortification" that would really provide.
(12-28-2019, 09:33 PM)LionHippo Wrote: [ -> ]To be honest, and I say this with charity, I think it approaches spiritual pride to decide that attending the Ordinary Form Mass, where Christ is truly present, as a type of "mortification."  As if Jesus is somehow more fully present in the TLM than He is at the OF Mass

He's also truly present at a Black Mass. He would also be present if the priest went to the bread aisle at the grocery store and started consecrating. Or if the priest decided to omit everything in the Mass except the words of consecration. The real presence of Christ, while important, is not the only important thing.

While it depends on the particular Mass, the new Mass is far more focused on man than the old Mass is. It can be very distracting. Especially when the priest decides he needs to explain how the genuflecting is done during the Creed. And not as part of the homily. I haven't read St John of the Cross, but it sounds crazy to me that an attachment to the Mass that the Church celebrated for centuries and that formed countless Saints is a bad thing to be attached to. I suppose if his point is about being attached to some sort of form of prayer for its own sake, rather than God, but the old Mass is far more Catholic than the new one is. If you use Eucharistic Prayer 2, an Anglican or Lutheran minister could (invalidly) celebrate the new Mass, and wouldn't see anything objectionable in it.
(12-28-2019, 09:33 PM)LionHippo Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-27-2019, 10:44 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]This thought has been crossing my mind lately: does anyone else think there could be spiritual benefit of mortification by attending a Novus Ordo Mass?

Right now I exclusively attend TLM, and I know many of you do this as well, but in some ways it seems it leads to a sort of spiritual comfort, or complacency, within myself. I've been reading the Ascent of Mount Carmel and have noted St. John of the Cross' warnings against attachment not just to physical things, but spiritual too. Could this strict adherence to the TLM be identified as a sort of spiritual attachment? It made me wonder if perhaps I need to attend a Novus Ordo every so often to learn detachment. I have a couple of reverent NO parishes near me that I used to attend before finding my current SSPX parish. I was thinking about doing this just to stamp out any spiritual pride I may have of my current blessings.

To be honest, and I say this with charity, I think it approaches spiritual pride to decide that attending the Ordinary Form Mass, where Christ is truly present, as a type of "mortification."  As if Jesus is somehow more fully present in the TLM than He is at the OF Mass  Furthermore, if the OF Masses near you are reverent anyway, I'm not sure how much "mortification" that would really provide.

And that would be a proper thing to note, clearly I need to mortify my spiritual pride if I would even deign such a thing as a mortification. It's not that Christ is less present at one liturgy as opposed to another, I don't doubt that, I know He is. What I was getting at is that the form of the Mass, i.e. the Novus Ordo, bothers me personally to the point that I would avoid it. This is where the mortifying element comes for me, because the NO liturgy fills me with repugnance. Therefore, subjecting myself to something I find repugnant, in order to commune with Christ in the Eucharist, would seem to be a potential form of self-mortification.

I mean, is not the point of mortification to subject yourself to things which are unappealing to your own will for love of God?
(12-27-2019, 11:08 PM)Margaret-Mary Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, have thought about this a lot. When i have to go to the NO it is like a penance. The problem for me, though, is that it doesn’t exactly stamp out spiritual pride (though it may cause me to examine my attachment to the TLM) — it tends to make me feel angry. Not at all the poor people who have no other option or knowledge — I feel sad for them — but at the whole way the McDonalds-drive-thru mass is done, the Protestant-ness of it, how this has been allowed to take over, how robbed of the Tradition of the Church most Catholics have been... and I leave feeling that i’ve lost grace. Personally, I need the overflowing grace and holiness from the TLM I go to, so I try not to miss and to attend the NO only when necessary. But if you have the fortitude to do that voluntarily as an intentional mortification, then God bless you.

Why do you feel sad for people who attend the Ordinary Form Mass?  Those who primarily attend the Latin Mass can become quasi-esoteric in their thinking.  There is a good talk on Sensus Fidelium by Fr. Ripperger where he warns Traditionalists to avoid this way of thinking, one where Traditionalists look down on other Catholics and immediately pity them.  They often presume to know more about the faith than those who attend the OF Mass, as if living out the Gospel depends primary on which liturgical format one chooses to attend.  To feel sad for your fellow Catholics at Mass reflects a spiritual pride itself, as if their faith life is somehow lacking because they do not primarily attend the Latin Mass.
(12-28-2019, 09:53 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]And that would be a proper thing to note, clearly I need to mortify my spiritual pride if I would even deign such a thing as a mortification. It's not that Christ is less present at one liturgy as opposed to another, I don't doubt that, I know He is. What I was getting at is that the form of the Mass, i.e. the Novus Ordo, bothers me personally to the point that I would avoid it. This is where the mortifying element comes for me, because the NO liturgy fills me with repugnance. Therefore, subjecting myself to something I find repugnant, in order to commune with Christ in the Eucharist, would seem to be a potential form of self-mortification.

I mean, is not the point of mortification to subject yourself to things which are unappealing to your own will for love of God?

Consider that by saying and doing so, essentially you are communicating to Jesus:  "Christ, I know you are present in the Eucharist here, and ordinarily even that's not good enough for me to be here - but this time, even though I find this Mass repulsive despite your presence, I need to be here in order to humble myself."

If the Mass is good enough for Christ to be there, it should be good enough for all of us.

Now don't get me wrong - by all means, if you prefer the Latin Mass, I find nothing wrong with that.  But to choose attending Mass as a form of mortification does not follow, since Christ is greater than all of us, and He is there.
(12-28-2019, 10:05 PM)LionHippo Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-28-2019, 09:53 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]And that would be a proper thing to note, clearly I need to mortify my spiritual pride if I would even deign such a thing as a mortification. It's not that Christ is less present at one liturgy as opposed to another, I don't doubt that, I know He is. What I was getting at is that the form of the Mass, i.e. the Novus Ordo, bothers me personally to the point that I would avoid it. This is where the mortifying element comes for me, because the NO liturgy fills me with repugnance. Therefore, subjecting myself to something I find repugnant, in order to commune with Christ in the Eucharist, would seem to be a potential form of self-mortification.

I mean, is not the point of mortification to subject yourself to things which are unappealing to your own will for love of God?

Consider that by saying and doing so, essentially you are communicating to Jesus:  "Christ, I know you are present in the Eucharist here, and ordinarily even that's not good enough for me to be here - but this time, even though I find this Mass repulsive despite your presence, I need to be here in order to humble myself."

If the Mass is good enough for Christ to be there, it should be good enough for all of us.

Now don't get me wrong - by all means, if you prefer the Latin Mass, I find nothing wrong with that.  But to choose attending Mass as a form of mortification does not follow, since Christ is greater than all of us, and He is there.
And that's a good point, which is why I asked the question. This was just something I was trying to come to terms with, whether or not one could mortify oneself this way.
(12-28-2019, 10:08 PM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]And that's a good point, which is why I asked the question. This was just something I was trying to come to terms with, whether or not one could mortify oneself this way.

I know what you mean by doing something unsavory as mortification.  These things can be big or small.

I think in some ways, certain actions at Mass can be seen as a type of mortification (perhaps more so a "humbling"), but not attending the Mass itself.

For example, an act of humility may be to attend the OF Mass and participate in singing all of the songs to the best of your ability.  Like "Gift of Finest Wheat" with as much vocal power and enthusiasm as you can muster. :D
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