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Is it really Catholic to ignore the pope?

The following was found at papalencyclicals.net

Vatican l
Session 4: 18 July 1870
First dogmatic constitution on the church of Christ

Chapter 3. On the power and character of the primacy of the Roman pontiff

And so,
supported by the clear witness of holy scripture, and
adhering to the manifest and explicit decrees both of our predecessors
the Roman pontiffs and of
general councils,
we promulgate anew the definition of the ecumenical council of Florence [49] ,
which must be believed by all faithful Christians, namely that
the apostolic see and the Roman pontiff hold a world-wide primacy, and that
the Roman pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter,
the prince of the apostles,
true vicar of Christ,
head of the whole church and
father and teacher of all christian people.
To him, in blessed Peter, full power has been given by our lord Jesus Christ to
tend,
rule and govern
the universal church.
All this is to be found in the acts of the ecumenical councils and the sacred canons.

So if all of the above is true, is it still okay to ignore the pope?
I am honestly looking for a response to this, not trying to stir up trouble. This is how I found the walls of Catholicism secure when I converted I kicked and pushed back then, I'm just doing the same here and trying to understand the current dilemma.
Quote:So if all of the above is true, is it still okay to ignore the pope?
 

Yup. We can follow no man into sin, error, or heresy -- not even the vicar of Christ, the successor of St. Peter, the man to whom has been given the "full power...by our lord Jesus Christ to tend, rule and govern the universal church." We have rational souls, the ability to reason. A is A.
(01-06-2020, 01:13 PM)Missbeliever Wrote: [ -> ]So if all of the above is true, is it still okay to ignore the pope?
I am honestly looking for a response to this, not trying to stir up trouble. This is how I found the walls of Catholicism secure when I converted I kicked and pushed back then, I'm just doing the same here and trying to understand the current dilemma.
Your right, we can't ignore the pope.  We MUST be in communion with him, we are to show proper reverence to him, we are subject to the things the popes BIND us to. That said, this is not an everyday occurrence.  

Knowing when, and when we are not bound is extremely helpful in our given situation(which is why I suggested Fr Ripperger's book).


It's clear you're not trying to stir up trouble.  Your question is a question that most faithful Catholics have to deal with today, but you're not going to find the answer summed up in a forum thread(and probably not in a single, isolated book).  

Our God is a good God.  Don't despair.  Continue to pray that He will provide the answer to your question and grant you peace(even if it takes years).  God may be using this painful situation as a way to perfect the virtues of Faith and Hope in you.
(01-05-2020, 10:32 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: [ -> ]Francis is the worst. The very worst of the worst. About as bad as it gets. [<-THIS!!!] His globalist attitudes, his treatment of the Chinese Catholics, his laxity toward sin, his attempts to redefine the Church's teachings on capital punishment, his nastiness, his rancor toward orthodox Catholics -- there's a long list of what's wrong with him. But he's not God; he's the Pope (at least that's the assumption), and he's only infallible in certain very limited circumstances. If some future Pope declares him to be a heretic, that's up to that Pope, not us. And so be it.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if that were to happen. But, as said, that's not up to us to decide, and we don't have to try to figure it all out. Our job is to save our souls and the souls of people around us.

If Francis negatively affects your faith, ignore him as much as possible, and know that our medieval ancestors didn't have 24/7 access to papal opinions and asides. If he's not solemnly defining something, pretend he doesn't exist except to pray for him. (for me, he doesn't negatively affect my faith; he just annoys and ticks me off to no end and makes me sad).

Stay close to Christ and the Sacraments. Read old catechisms. Have a decent prayer life. Read orthodox spiritual works. Have hobbies and interests. Focus on others, on service. Know that we will follow Christ in His Passion (and His Resurrection), so no rose gardens were promised in this "vale of tears," and it's OK. Chill in knowing that we do have Christ's promise that the gates of Hell will NOT prevail.
As for me, well she said it best!!!
Really liked the last paragraph!
(01-06-2020, 02:32 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:So if all of the above is true, is it still okay to ignore the pope?
 

Yup. We can follow no man into sin, error, or heresy -- not even the vicar of Christ, the successor of St. Peter, the man to whom has been given the "full power...by our lord Jesus Christ to tend, rule and govern the universal church." We have rational souls, the ability to reason. A is A.
 Can someone show me from a church document where it says a pope can teach heresy?
And if we can ignore the pope at times and have to figure out when to pay attention, why do we need a pope?
In regards to MacPasquale's comment: "but you're not going to find the answer summed up in a forum thread(and probably not in a single, isolated book). "

I don't see why not. Why can't the truth be simple? Why can't the answer be pointed out in a church document?
This situation seems a lot different than the difficulty of converting. In that situation the priest had to work to dismantle the barriers to the truth and then present the truth, so there were complexities there but this seems more like I'm being asked to weave and bob and contort myself and close one eye and so on to have this all make sense. 
 
(01-07-2020, 04:50 PM)Missbeliever Wrote: [ -> ]In regards to MacPasquale's comment: "but you're not going to find the answer summed up in a forum thread(and probably not in a single, isolated book). "

I don't see why not. Why can't the truth be simple? Why can't the answer be pointed out in a church document?
This situation seems a lot different than the difficulty of converting. In that situation the priest had to work to dismantle the barriers to the truth and then present the truth, so there were complexities there but this seems more like I'm being asked to weave and bob and contort myself and close one eye and so on to have this all make sense. 
 


The truth is not always simple.  

We can point out church documents to make a point all we want, but it would useless to do that without the consideration of their doctrinal value, historical context, and what has been said about said document by competent persons in the church(particularly on points of legitimate dispute).  

Ignoring the pope's day to day chater doesn't equate to keeping one eye closed.  You, already know the guy is a bit off.  Pray and take the time to study the issue further.  


Not to sound like a broken record but:

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/1...ority.html
(01-07-2020, 04:50 PM)Missbeliever Wrote: [ -> ]In regards to MacPasquale's comment: "but you're not going to find the answer summed up in a forum thread(and probably not in a single, isolated book). "

I don't see why not. Why can't the truth be simple? Why can't the answer be pointed out in a church document?
This situation seems a lot different than the difficulty of converting. In that situation the priest had to work to dismantle the barriers to the truth and then present the truth, so there were complexities there but this seems more like I'm being asked to weave and bob and contort myself and close one eye and so on to have this all make sense. 
 

I don't think there's a good answer.  I've asked the same question and have received similar answers.  The Pope is only infallible ex cathedra, you should ignore him if he teaches or says something that's contrary to doctrine, and so on.  I'm not satisfied with those answers either.  

First of all, we are suppose to listen to the Pope and follow his advice, ex cathedra or not.  In the Catechism of Saint Pius X it says, "Every Catholic must acknowledge the Pope as Father, Pastor, and Universal Teacher, and be united with him in mind and heart."  That doesn't sound like we can just ignore the Pope and wait for better days. 

I'm at a loss and understand your frustration.  Sticking it out with this Pope and looking the other way makes me feel complicit in heresy by association, especially since he's stacked the deck with his Cardinals.  I'm not at all comfortable with it, but I don't have another option that I know of at this point.
(01-07-2020, 10:20 PM)jack89 Wrote: [ -> ]First of all, we are suppose to listen to the Pope and follow his advice, ex cathedra or not.  In the Catechism of Saint Pius X it says, "Every Catholic must acknowledge the Pope as Father, Pastor, and Universal Teacher, and be united with him in mind and heart."  That doesn't sound like we can just ignore the Pope and wait for better days.

Easy to say when the Pope is St Pius X.

But what does it mean to be united in mind and heart with Alexander VI? Are we supposed to think about how enjoyable it must have been for him to fornicate with his mistresses? If he's the Universal Teacher, are we to follow his example? Obviously not.

If the Pope is telling us that atheists go to heaven, and it's okay to worship idols, and adulterers who have no intent of stopping can receive Communion, ignore him. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema." There have been plenty of bad Popes before, but I'm not sure we've seen one who's so bad doctrinally. Maybe John XXII, but even that was only one issue.
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