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Honestly, I have been watching the clerical celibacy debate pan out recently and as an Easterner (technically, I haven't been chrismated yet until I can get my godmother and her husband witnessing it--that may be tomorrow though), I must say that it seems trivial but I think I ought to make a defense of clerical celibacy any way. I also have a High Anglican background. That means a lot of priests I know (yes, Anglican clergy are not validly ordained) are or have been married. No such issue with married clergy.

However, celibate clergy create for valiant men who can devote far more time to the fatherhood of their parish and aren't easily distracted. St. Hildegard of Bingen points out that a priest must be married to one wife--that wife being the Church. With that said, the issue of clerical celibacy really ought to be looked at in a more responsible manner of whether it benefits the Church or not. Clearly, celibate clergy greatly benefit the Church. They aren't distracted by family or other personal issues. That's when they are being obedient to their celibate callings. Tragically, this has not been the case much of the time. There is the on paper vs. the in practice aspect.
And look at the bright side, at least we aren't talking female clergy! :O
That is one of the benefits of clerical celibacy, but there's some other issues to point out.

1) EVERYONE is called to celibacy. Only those who are in holy matrimony may engage in marital relations, everyone else has to be celibate.
2) Sex is a distraction. All of us who engage in sexual relations know how difficult it can to be to focus on anything else other than sex when our passions are controlling us.
3) The celibate man is a focused man. They are those who are devoted and focus, and have no time for relationships and satisfying their loins.
4) Celibate priests are able to channel their passion to preaching the Word of God, passion becomes channeled for the spiritual as opposed to the temporal.
5) St Paul argued for celibacy 'nuff said.


As for the paper vs reality, it is important to state that in order to remain chaste and celibate, prayer is necessary. It's not the fault of the practice if the necessary conditions are not being met. Many priests and bishops who struggle with celibacy are not men of strong prayer life. Prayer is first and foremost. Priests have to pray the Divine Office every day, but failure to do so will cause these men to fall.
(01-24-2020, 08:14 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]That is one of the benefits of clerical celibacy, but there's some other issues to point out.

1) EVERYONE is called to celibacy.  Only those who are in holy matrimony may engage in marital relations, everyone else has to be celibate.
2) Sex is a distraction.  All of us who engage in sexual relations know how difficult it can to be to focus on anything else other than sex when our passions are controlling us. 
3) The celibate man is a focused man.  They are those who are devoted and focus, and have no time for relationships and satisfying their loins.
4) Celibate priests are able to channel their passion to preaching the Word of God, passion becomes channeled for the spiritual as opposed to the temporal.
5) St Paul argued for celibacy 'nuff said.


As for the paper vs reality, it is important to state that in order to remain chaste and celibate, prayer is necessary.  It's not the fault of the practice if the necessary conditions are not being met.  Many priests and bishops who struggle with celibacy are not men of strong prayer life.  Prayer is first and foremost.  Priests have to pray the Divine Office every day, but failure to do so will cause these men to fall.
Thanks. That was better articulated than what I could provide.
(01-24-2020, 08:14 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]That is one of the benefits of clerical celibacy, but there's some other issues to point out.

1) EVERYONE is called to celibacy.  Only those who are in holy matrimony may engage in marital relations, everyone else has to be celibate.
2) Sex is a distraction.  All of us who engage in sexual relations know how difficult it can to be to focus on anything else other than sex when our passions are controlling us. 
3) The celibate man is a focused man.  They are those who are devoted and focus, and have no time for relationships and satisfying their loins.
4) Celibate priests are able to channel their passion to preaching the Word of God, passion becomes channeled for the spiritual as opposed to the temporal.
5) St Paul argued for celibacy 'nuff said.


As for the paper vs reality, it is important to state that in order to remain chaste and celibate, prayer is necessary.  It's not the fault of the practice if the necessary conditions are not being met.  Many priests and bishops who struggle with celibacy are not men of strong prayer life.  Prayer is first and foremost.  Priests have to pray the Divine Office every day, but failure to do so will cause these men to fall.

Great points here.
(01-24-2020, 08:14 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]That is one of the benefits of clerical celibacy, but there's some other issues to point out.

1) EVERYONE is called to celibacy.  Only those who are in holy matrimony may engage in marital relations, everyone else has to be celibate.
2) Sex is a distraction.  All of us who engage in sexual relations know how difficult it can to be to focus on anything else other than sex when our passions are controlling us. 
3) The celibate man is a focused man.  They are those who are devoted and focus, and have no time for relationships and satisfying their loins.
4) Celibate priests are able to channel their passion to preaching the Word of God, passion becomes channeled for the spiritual as opposed to the temporal.
5) St Paul argued for celibacy 'nuff said.


As for the paper vs reality, it is important to state that in order to remain chaste and celibate, prayer is necessary.  It's not the fault of the practice if the necessary conditions are not being met.  Many priests and bishops who struggle with celibacy are not men of strong prayer life.  Prayer is first and foremost.  Priests have to pray the Divine Office every day, but failure to do so will cause these men to fall.
You're mixing up your definitions on #1.

Chastity relates to purity in one's state of life. Whereas if one is single they cannot engage in relations and if one is married they may only do so with their spouse.
Celibacy refers to not being married
Continence refers to not engaging in sexual relations.

As such, everyone is called to chastity. Clerics and religious are called to chastity, celibacy, and continence.

Anyway, agreed with the rest. I can see an argument for allowing a lower class (in a sense) married clergy. However, I could see how doing so could very well lessen the amount of celibate clergy and cause a divide within the priestly ranks if there is a sizable group of married clergy (rather than just having a small number of exceptions). Married priests would also not be able to devote the same amount of time as a celibate priest because they also have a vocation to their marriage and as a parent. As such their time would be divided. Could it be done? Probably, it exists in the east. However, it is clear that a celibate priesthood is optimal and Scripture supports such a stance.
I know I will probably get heat for this but I think this married priests thing is a Trojan horse. If the issue was really about priestly celibacy then I'd be willing to at least weigh the merits of both sides. I suspect however that the impetus behind this is "women led men" who will flip on matters of contraception and the role of women in the Church. After all what more effective way to a female dominated (as if it isn't already) Church than send the men in to clear the way then put the "queens" on their thrones. In this day and age I am sorry to say but the western world lacks the maturity to debate such a topic.....
(01-24-2020, 08:14 AM)austenbosten Wrote: [ -> ]2) Sex is a distraction.  All of us who engage in sexual relations know how difficult it can to be to focus on anything else other than sex when our passions are controlling us. 
3) The celibate man is a focused man.  They are those who are devoted and focus, and have no time for relationships and satisfying their loins.
4) Celibate priests are able to channel their passion to preaching the Word of God, passion becomes channeled for the spiritual as opposed to the temporal.


2. Eating can be a distraction.  Drinking can be a distraction.  Fellowship can be a distraction.  Even if sex is more frequently a distraction for men than the other passions, that doesn't mean there aren't married men who are able to control their passions for sex.  The key in what you said is "when our passions are controlling us."  I'd argue a man controlled by any of his passions, not just passion for sex, is probably unfit for the priesthood.
3.  Married men can be focused too.  Married men can be as focused as celibate men on the needs of a parish.
4.  Married men are incapable of channeling their sexual passion?  Are celibate priests better at channeling their passion for food, or sports, or a few beers here and there?  Why do Latins hyperfocus on sexual passion and ignore the others?
(01-24-2020, 11:09 AM)GangGreen Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, agreed with the rest. I can see an argument for allowing a lower class (in a sense) married clergy. However, I could see how doing so could very well lessen the amount of celibate clergy and cause a divide within the priestly ranks if there is a sizable group of married clergy (rather than just having a small number of exceptions). Married priests would also not be able to devote the same amount of time as a celibate priest because they also have a vocation to their marriage and as a parent. As such their time would be divided. Could it be done? Probably, it exists in the east. However, it is clear that a celibate priesthood is optimal and Scripture supports such a stance.

The Latin lack of faith on this is astounding. You believe God can make a priest able to read a penitent's heart. You believe God can make a priest levitate. You believe God can make a priest bilocate. But you can't believe God can make a priest who can also manage married life? How can you believe in a God who can perform the supernatural when you don't even believe in a God who can perform the natural?
W

                                                                  If you have a married priest with young children, I don't see anyway around him having to occasionally choose between his family and his parishioners. Either way, someone is going to be disappointed. Waiting to ordain married men in the East, until at least, their children have reached a certain age, sounds much wiser to me.
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