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Full Version: "And he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror" (Rev 6,1)
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Revelation 6,1-2:

"I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest."

In the official Vulgata:
"Et vidi quod aperuisset Agnus unum de septem sigillis, et audivi unum de quatuor animalibus, dicens tamquam vocem tonitrui: Veni, et vide.  Et vidi: et ecce equus albus, et qui sedebat super illum, habebat arcum, et data est ei corona, et exivit vincens ut vinceret."

So, the first of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse will be given "corona" to conquer the world. I don't want to interpret too much into this passage - but it is creepy.


Btw: as far as I know, there is no agreement among the Church Fathers on who the first horseman is. Some say Jesus, some say an evil figure (like the other three horsemen).
(03-24-2020, 02:48 AM)JosefSilouan Wrote: [ -> ]Revelation 6,1-2:

"I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest."

In the official Vulgata:
"Et vidi quod aperuisset Agnus unum de septem sigillis, et audivi unum de quatuor animalibus, dicens tamquam vocem tonitrui: Veni, et vide.  Et vidi: et ecce equus albus, et qui sedebat super illum, habebat arcum, et data est ei corona, et exivit vincens ut vinceret."

So, the first of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse will be given "corona" to conquer the world. I don't want to interpret too much into this passage - but it is creepy.


Btw: as far as I know, there is no agreement among the Church Fathers on who the first horseman is. Some say Jesus, some say an evil figure (like the other three horsemen).
That would be chilling.  On some level I can see what you're seeing, or at least I think I do.  Sometimes it's easy to forget that these scenarios and characters from apocalypse speak on multiple levels about both past and future events. 

For the first time in my life I'm actually nervous for the future.  Perhaps this is the First Horseman bringing his corona, and riding out like a conquerer bent out for conquest.
(03-24-2020, 05:58 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]That would be chilling.  On some level I can see what you're seeing, or at least I think I do.  Sometimes it's easy to forget that these scenarios and characters from apocalypse speak on multiple levels about both past and future events. 

For the first time in my life I'm actually nervous for the future.  Perhaps this is the First Horseman bringing his corona, and riding out like a conquerer bent out for conquest.

Catholics seem wary these days of giving any leeway to the possibility of it being the Last Days or the beginning of the Last Days because of the Protestant Fundie association of trying to interpreting the book of Apocalypse.

But, really, the last century alone is easily the most evil known in history, the Church has gone astray, and the post-modern era has been accelerating in sheer wretchedness and evil.

Our Lord, while He said we will not know the day or the hour, did say that we can read the signs of the times to know when something is coming. And what is a bigger sign than the public celebration of the Mass being closed off? Something that has not happened since Constantine legalized public Christian worship?

I don't like what's happening right now, and the speed at which things are developing, over a virus that still has not proven to be any more deadly to the general population than the Flu. The actions of our governments is too coordinated, as if this has been planned.

I'm honestly waiting for an individual to take the world stage as some sort of 'savior' that even good Catholics will follow. But only God knows what's coming down the pipe.
(03-24-2020, 09:24 AM)Augustinian Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-24-2020, 05:58 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: [ -> ]That would be chilling.  On some level I can see what you're seeing, or at least I think I do.  Sometimes it's easy to forget that these scenarios and characters from apocalypse speak on multiple levels about both past and future events. 

For the first time in my life I'm actually nervous for the future.  Perhaps this is the First Horseman bringing his corona, and riding out like a conquerer bent out for conquest.

Catholics seem wary these days of giving any leeway to the possibility of it being the Last Days or the beginning of the Last Days because of the Protestant Fundie association of trying to interpreting the book of Apocalypse.

But, really, the last century alone is easily the most evil known in history, the Church has gone astray, and the post-modern era has been accelerating in sheer wretchedness and evil.

Our Lord, while He said we will not know the day or the hour, did say that we can read the signs of the times to know when something is coming. And what is a bigger sign than the public celebration of the Mass being closed off? Something that has not happened since Constantine legalized public Christian worship?

I don't like what's happening right now, and the speed at which things are developing, over a virus that still has not proven to be any more deadly to the general population than the Flu. The actions of our governments is too coordinated, as if this has been planned.

I'm honestly waiting for an individual to take the world stage as some sort of 'savior' that even good Catholics will follow. But only God knows what's coming down the pipe.
At this point anything is possible.  I for one thing this situation is epochal in the scope of the permanent changes it's going to make on society once the air clears.  

It's beginning to look more and more like "Lord of the World" sans the Pius XI era "siege mentality" papacy and Vatican and the antichrist figure.
Corona viruses are called that because of the spikes on them that they use to attach to other cells in order to infect them.  The first observers thought that it made them look like a crown, hence the name.

As an interesting aside, experts say they are convinced this particular corona virus is NOT man-made, because of how perfectly its spikes attach to human cells.  I don't know why this convinces them of that, but apparently this is very convincing evidence to them that this is not a bioweapon.  Or, at least, if it is a bioweapon, it would be a naturally-occurring virus used as one, like small pox, not one completely concocted in a lab somewhere.

So, at any rate, back to the crown of the first horsemen.  Remember, this was not written in Latin.  It was written in Greek.  When the prophecy was given to John from Christ, he would have heard it either in Greek or, more likely, Aramaic.  John would not have heard CORONA, but whatever the Greek or Aramaic word for crown is.  This doesn't completely rule out the possibility the crown referred to in Revelation is the current corona virus.  But it does mean that, if it is referring to this virus, the intent of the prophecy was to name what it was speaking of by connecting the prophecy of a crown, to the translation of that word in one particular language, not of the language used in the prophecy itself, and then connecting that translated word to something in the future that isn't really a type of that word at all, but is only linked because people of the time made an observation that the physical makeup of it looked vaguely like that same object.  If this is the case, it would put this prophecy in the category of Nostradamus, not other Biblical prophecies.

The purpose of prophecy in the Bible is to call people to repentance.  Even when prophecies are of the future, it is to act as a blunt warning of something that will occur if people do not repent.  It is never a riddle inside a riddle.  If the prophecy of Revelation is referring to the coronavirus, it makes it into a sort of "six steps of Kevin Bacon" kind of riddle where you have to know the answer to one to unlock the next riddle, and you have to have the answer to all to even be able to link the thing prophecied back to the actual prophecy.  It doesn't have the characteristic of prophecy truly coming from God.  In fact, it is more similar to some prophecies of Marian apparitions that have been condemned by the Church as false.

I think that it is more likely than not that the crown of the 1st horsemen is NOT referring to the corona virus.  Although, the suggestion that it does makes for a really good late-night thriller!
I, for one, see little point in the speculation (aside from the interesting academic exercise).  How does this change our daily lives?  How does it change our faith?  It cannot.  Whatever else, Christ remains the Way, the Truth and the Light.  There is no need for fear or deviation.  Whatever happens is His will and there is little we can do but pray and fast and watch.  Isn't this what we were doing (or should be doing) all along?
Quote:Whatever happens is His will and there is little we can do but pray and fast and watch.

True. I didn't think there was a suggestion otherwise.

Literacy--the ability to 'talk about talk'--is the food of the mind. There is precious little of it in the world these days, and I suspect that most Catholics come to a site like this one (actually, there aren't other sites like Fisheaters, trust me, I've looked) to do just that. No harm done, and perhaps even a bit of good if we can laugh about it.
Be wary of speculation and over interpretation. Corona is the Latin word for crown. The red horseman is red because he is bringing war, not plague. The Vulgate translation is entirely incidental.
Well, Napoleon had a white horse and crowns, and rodeout as a conqueror bent on conquest, and Atilla rode as a conqueror and held a bow, not to mention countless other figures that fit this description, all using crowns. It's easy, specially in times such as these, to see things were they don't exist, so be careful with interpretations.
But as Tumblar house said: Lamest Apocalypse ever.
(03-24-2020, 09:56 AM)Melkite Wrote: [ -> ]Remember, this was not written in Latin.  It was written in Greek.  When the prophecy was given to John from Christ, he would have heard it either in Greek or, more likely, Aramaic.  John would not have heard CORONA, but whatever the Greek or Aramaic word for crown is.  

The word in the Greek New Testament is στέφανος (stephanos, whence the name Stephen), meaning "wreath, crown" and by extension "reward, honour, renown, fame", from the verb στέφειν (stéphein), "to encircle, to wreathe". 
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