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Yes, I asked the question.  I may need to go to Confession for asking this question, but all those sins and heresies will not go unpunished.  And God's retribution may come sooner than people might expect.  My other question is: Do people in the Church hierarchy also question whether this is a divine sign that the Church is going in the wrong direction?
Quote:And God's retribution may come sooner than people might expect.

It's breathing down our necks at the moment.

Can't speak for the hierarchy--don't know any--but I rather think it's a few well-recognized members that are headed in the wrong direction, not the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
(04-06-2020, 12:47 AM)Teresa Agrorum Wrote: [ -> ]Can't speak for the hierarchy--don't know any--but I rather think it's a few well-recognized members that are headed in the wrong direction, not the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Unfortunately, I think it's more than a few in the hierarchy, and they have been empowered by Francis.  Without Francis, they wouldn't have the kind of power or influence they have today. Ultimately, the buck stops with Francis.
Short answer : Absolutely know way to know without God revealing his reasons to us. So, it's pointless to speculate.

All suffering, pestilence, plague, famine, war, earthquakes, floods, and evils are because of sin.

Whose sin? No way to know without God saying.

It is not just Francis who has caused terrible confusion and sin; Benedict did his part; John Paul II seemed an expert at communicatio in sacris; Paul VI allowed the "smoke of Satan" to enter the Church; John XXIII was too much Good Pope John to shut down the Neo-Modernists; Pius XII tried very well at times to hold the line, but his own confessor was one of these Neo-Modernists ... the list could go on.

Then there's the Bishops and Priests, and so much could be said.

Then there's the Catholic Faithful, us.

So where do we begin? Whose fault it? Ultimately if you've ever sinned, it's at least partially your fault. If you've failed to confess or repair for that sin, then doubly so. If you're hardened in it, triply so.

So, unless you can read God's mind, and if you can, I doubt you'd be asking, probably best to not even ask.
(04-06-2020, 01:07 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]So, unless you can read God's mind, and if you can, I doubt you'd be asking, probably best to not even ask.

Well, if the state of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church were not so bad... and indeed the world with Sodomy and Abortion... but given the state of the Church, somethings gotta give, and this may not even be the end of it, could very well be just the beginning... I mean, they worshiped idols (Pachamama).

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
(04-06-2020, 11:18 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-06-2020, 01:07 AM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]So, unless you can read God's mind, and if you can, I doubt you'd be asking, probably best to not even ask.

Well, if the state of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church were not so bad... and indeed the world with Sodomy and Abortion... but given the state of the Church, somethings gotta give, and this may not even be the end of it, could very well be just the beginning... I mean, they worshiped idols (Pachamama).

And so did John Paul II engage in pagan worship ...

So I'd look at home for the sin, before trying to ascribe it to any other person. We only get the leaders that we deserve, and pray for. If they are bad, it might just because we're not so good ourselves ... mote, eye, beam and all.

Or as I heard it put during a retreat at seminary. If the priest is a Saint, the people will be good. If the priest is good, the people will be mediocre. If the priest is mediocre, the people will be wicked. If the priest is wicked, the people are lost. So, if we see bad priests and bishops and Popes, then it might just be because we're (collectively, of course), one step worse.
(04-06-2020, 05:57 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-06-2020, 11:18 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if the state of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church were not so bad... and indeed the world with Sodomy and Abortion... but given the state of the Church, somethings gotta give, and this may not even be the end of it, could very well be just the beginning... I mean, they worshiped idols (Pachamama).

And so did John Paul II engage in pagan worship ...

So I'd look at home for the sin, before trying to ascribe it to any other person. We only get the leaders that we deserve, and pray for. If they are bad, it might just because we're not so good ourselves ... mote, eye, beam and all.

Or as I heard it put during a retreat at seminary. If the priest is a Saint, the people will be good. If the priest is good, the people will be mediocre. If the priest is mediocre, the people will be wicked. If the priest is wicked, the people are lost. So, if we see bad priests and bishops and Popes, then it might just be because we're (collectively, of course), one step worse.

It was me. :(
(04-06-2020, 06:08 PM)Sacred Heart lover Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-06-2020, 05:57 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-06-2020, 11:18 AM)josh987654321 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, if the state of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church were not so bad... and indeed the world with Sodomy and Abortion... but given the state of the Church, somethings gotta give, and this may not even be the end of it, could very well be just the beginning... I mean, they worshiped idols (Pachamama).

And so did John Paul II engage in pagan worship ...

So I'd look at home for the sin, before trying to ascribe it to any other person. We only get the leaders that we deserve, and pray for. If they are bad, it might just because we're not so good ourselves ... mote, eye, beam and all.

Or as I heard it put during a retreat at seminary. If the priest is a Saint, the people will be good. If the priest is good, the people will be mediocre. If the priest is mediocre, the people will be wicked. If the priest is wicked, the people are lost. So, if we see bad priests and bishops and Popes, then it might just be because we're (collectively, of course), one step worse.

It was me. :(

Same here.
God didn't cause COVID-19, although it serves as a vehicle of redemptive suffering which helps to atone for all the sins of the world. We shouldn't be seeking a scapegoat: we shall be judged as we judge, and it is a grave matter to assume superiority and justification over the Supreme Pontiff. Let us use this suffering in a better manner than we have used our health.
(04-06-2020, 05:57 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: [ -> ]So I'd look at home for the sin, before trying to ascribe it to any other person. We only get the leaders that we deserve, and pray for. If they are bad, it might just because we're not so good ourselves ... mote, eye, beam and all.

Sure, but in this case it's well beyond safe to ascribe it to Bergoglio and his accomplices, since they literally worshiped idols, of course, they were enabled by a wicked/lapsed people too. While taking the log out of your own eye is important, one must be careful not to be too caught up in that, as we are all sinners and like St Padre Pio once said, something like scruples is like trying to walk in tight shoes. Need some good ones to put the wood on these outrageous, outright heretics, Christ Himself flipped tables and made a whip... when Idols are worshiped some of that is needed, when righteous anger/indignation is lacking, so is love.

"For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

God Bless You
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