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(04-01-2021, 06:58 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:42 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]I figured if I could sort through the toxic users on here, I could find the solid traditional Catholics who could make a case for it, and other things.

We've been making the case for it, using the Eastern Fathers, and quoting Conciliar and Papal statements, and for doing so, we get called 'toxic'?

From what I can gather, he considers that quote mining because some guy has a series of 3 hour long videos that say so.  I don't know about anyone else but I don't have the time to review these videos and refute them for the OP.
(04-01-2021, 04:11 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]Or Vatican II is just the beginning of God purifying His church from the errors of raising the papacy above God?

If Vatican I was wrong, what guarantee is there that Vatican II - or, for that matter, anything the Church has ever taught - was right?
(04-01-2021, 08:26 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:58 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:42 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]I figured if I could sort through the toxic users on here, I could find the solid traditional Catholics who could make a case for it, and other things.

We've been making the case for it, using the Eastern Fathers, and quoting Conciliar and Papal statements, and for doing so, we get called 'toxic'?

From what I can gather, he considers that quote mining because some guy has a series of 3 hour long videos that say so.  I don't know about anyone else but I don't have the time to review these videos and refute them for the OP.

I never asked anyone here to do that.  Just asked if anyone knows of any Catholic apologist who addressed his arguments.  So far the only ones that have tried have been absolutely shredded by the logic and reasoning of Ubi Petrus.  Even if you read the comments in the youtube videos, where various people try to continue the conversation on both sides, you will see Holy Orthodoxy winning hands down.  I came here looking for the truth about Catholicism and you guys helped me find it.  Holy Orthodoxy is Christ's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Rome is just a schismatic breakaway sect that has been swirling the toilet since 1054ad (and arguably much earlier than that) and you trads have only begun to recognize it at the Second Vatican Council.  You aren't looking back far enough.
(04-01-2021, 10:07 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 08:26 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:58 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:42 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]I figured if I could sort through the toxic users on here, I could find the solid traditional Catholics who could make a case for it, and other things.

We've been making the case for it, using the Eastern Fathers, and quoting Conciliar and Papal statements, and for doing so, we get called 'toxic'?

From what I can gather, he considers that quote mining because some guy has a series of 3 hour long videos that say so.  I don't know about anyone else but I don't have the time to review these videos and refute them for the OP.

I never asked anyone here to do that.  Just asked if anyone knows of any Catholic apologist who addressed his arguments.  So far the only ones that have tried have been absolutely shredded by the logic and reasoning of Ubi Petrus.  Even if you read the comments in the youtube videos, where various people try to continue the conversation on both sides, you will see Holy Orthodoxy winning hands down.  I came here looking for the truth about Catholicism and you guys helped me find it.  Holy Orthodoxy is Christ's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Rome is just a schismatic breakaway sect that has been swirling the toilet since 1054ad (and arguably much earlier than that) and you trads have only begun to recognize it at the Second Vatican Council.  You aren't looking back far enough.

If you are leaving Catholicism based what you perceive as pharisaical behavior in these threads, then you didn't even have a vestige of faith left when you started posting. You already had your mind made up.
(04-01-2021, 10:07 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 08:26 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:58 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:42 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]I figured if I could sort through the toxic users on here, I could find the solid traditional Catholics who could make a case for it, and other things.

We've been making the case for it, using the Eastern Fathers, and quoting Conciliar and Papal statements, and for doing so, we get called 'toxic'?

From what I can gather, he considers that quote mining because some guy has a series of 3 hour long videos that say so.  I don't know about anyone else but I don't have the time to review these videos and refute them for the OP.

I never asked anyone here to do that.  Just asked if anyone knows of any Catholic apologist who addressed his arguments.  So far the only ones that have tried have been absolutely shredded by the logic and reasoning of Ubi Petrus.  Even if you read the comments in the youtube videos, where various people try to continue the conversation on both sides, you will see Holy Orthodoxy winning hands down.  I came here looking for the truth about Catholicism and you guys helped me find it.  Holy Orthodoxy is Christ's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Rome is just a schismatic breakaway sect that has been swirling the toilet since 1054ad (and arguably much earlier than that) and you trads have only begun to recognize it at the Second Vatican Council.  You aren't looking back far enough.

"And Jesus wept." - John, 11:35.

I'll pray for you.
(04-01-2021, 10:07 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 08:26 PM)SeekerofChrist Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:58 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-01-2021, 06:42 PM)StJosephPrayForUs Wrote: [ -> ]I figured if I could sort through the toxic users on here, I could find the solid traditional Catholics who could make a case for it, and other things.

We've been making the case for it, using the Eastern Fathers, and quoting Conciliar and Papal statements, and for doing so, we get called 'toxic'?

From what I can gather, he considers that quote mining because some guy has a series of 3 hour long videos that say so.  I don't know about anyone else but I don't have the time to review these videos and refute them for the OP.

I never asked anyone here to do that.  Just asked if anyone knows of any Catholic apologist who addressed his arguments.  So far the only ones that have tried have been absolutely shredded by the logic and reasoning of Ubi Petrus.  Even if you read the comments in the youtube videos, where various people try to continue the conversation on both sides, you will see Holy Orthodoxy winning hands down.  I came here looking for the truth about Catholicism and you guys helped me find it.  Holy Orthodoxy is Christ's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Rome is just a schismatic breakaway sect that has been swirling the toilet since 1054ad (and arguably much earlier than that) and you trads have only begun to recognize it at the Second Vatican Council.  You aren't looking back far enough.

I just looked over the comments on the video "Refuting Erick Ybarra & Matt Fradd | Yes, you should become Eastern Orthodox."  No, Holy Orthodoxy isn't winning hands down.  I do see comments not dissimilar to ours here: confident assertions that their church is the truth.  Another portion of the comments are by those saying, more or less, that they're so glad they became Orthodox.  There isn't much of substance in the comments, which is to be expected in a combox.

What really amuses me is how you conduct yourself here.  You accuse us of being arrogant, self-righteous AND then you say things like "Rome is just a schismatic breakaway sect that has been swirling the toilet since 1054ad."  You're well on your way to being an Orthodox, because those kinds of anti-Catholic statements are common in the EO world.  Yet, we're arrogant and self-righteous.  You're looking in a mirror and seeing your own image reflected back to you.  So much for all this supposed Orthodox humility and love you've been raving about.
The Roman Church is the Mother and Mistress of all the Churches, as the Council of Trent declares. Those Churches alone fully participate in Catholic Unity, and completely share in Apostolic Authority, who preserve full communion with the Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church. The Apostolic Church of Rome goes back to and was founded by Our Lord Jesus through His Apostles St. Peter and St. Paul. 24 Catholic Churches, One Latin, and 23 Eastern Catholic Churches, do this and share and enjoy all the blessings and benefits of Catholic Faith and Catholic Communion. It is never lawful, and always gravely sinful, for a Catholic Christian, whether Latin or Eastern, after knowing the Truth, to lapse back into some sinful schism like Orthodoxy.

Here is Fr. Philip at Ephesus I, EC 3 on the Papacy and St. Peter as the Rock of the Church: "There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince (ἔξαρχος) and head of the Apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation (θεμέλιος) of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors. The holy and most blessed pope Cœlestine, according to due order, is his successor and holds his place, and us he sent to supply his place in this holy synod" https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3810.htm
I wasn't expecting someone to start a thread about Ubi Petrus. There has been bad blood between the guys from Reason and Theology and Ubi Petrus, Jay Dyer, and Dyer's fans/followers.

Elijah Yasi, one of R&T's contributors, has made two video responses to Ubi on Papal Infallibility. A third is planned later on.



(04-01-2021, 02:18 AM)Justin Tertius Wrote: [ -> ]I follow Lofton and Ybarra as well. I have not really followed too much their debates with Ubi Petrus, though I think they have had some negative interactions in the past.

If you are looking for a refutation of Ubi Petrus as a person, and all of his apologetics, that is something I doubt anyone on this page is going to be able to provide. If, however, you can give us an example of an argument that you have heard from Ubi, then maybe someone who is active on the forum who is knowledgeable can interact with it.

There has been very bad blood between Erick, Michael and Ubi.
Jumping to the back of the thread without reading but I would listen to Elijah Yasi of Underground Catholicism. He has a whole series, several hours worth of material, directly refuting Ubi Petrus.
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