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Men's Dress Worn By Women - AgnusDei1989 - 02-07-2009

HEY, I like boots...



Men's Dress Worn By Women - Historian - 02-07-2009

What about men in women's clothing? I wear tight American Eagle jeans, is that a sin?



Men's Dress Worn By Women - Historian - 02-07-2009

Aw heck no. You can take my pants away, but nobody's touching my boots.


Men's Dress Worn By Women - Cantus - 02-07-2009

Rex_Tremendae Wrote:What about men in women's clothing? I wear tight American Eagle jeans, is that a sin?

MEN IN WOMENS CLOTHING???????

[Image: villagepeoplesmiley.gif]



Men's Dress Worn By Women - piabee - 02-07-2009

Rex_Tremendae Wrote:What about men in women's clothing? I wear tight American Eagle jeans, is that a sin?
Do you buy their women's jeans? American Eagle makes both men's and women's jeans. The emo pants question has come up before without getting a satisfactory anwer.



Men's Dress Worn By Women - The_Harlequin_King - 02-07-2009

StevusMagnus Wrote:
LaRoza Wrote:
StevusMagnus Wrote:
LaRoza Wrote:That is my whole point, modestly goes beyond the actual article of clothing. The only thing really "female" is a veil.

Whoa! Who are YOU to say that? Clothing has no inherent gender. A veil is only feminine because society dictates it.

That is a Church Tradition, not some relic from an earlier time which I adhere to because I happened to grow up with it.

Ahh, so you get to pick and choose the exceptions to your rules. Ok.

Umm.... I'd say both of you are correct. Women and veils were part of the Hebrew culture in the time of St. Paul, but then Christians adapted it as a universal custom. There was a time in the Middle Ages when women were expected to wear veils of some sort everywhere, not just in church, because the influence of cultural Christianity was just that intense. However, the Church has allowed for a wide variety of interpretations of veiling since then. I mean, the circular chapel cap certainly doesn't do the job of actually covering all, or even most, of the hair. Neither does a hat, unless the woman's hair is very short. And then, even those fuller lace mantillas are transparent. This is a big deviation from the 1st century concept where the whole hair is covered with a large piece of solid fabric. Thus, I'd say the custom of veiling is more out of obedience to a small-t tradition, rather than a major theological principle.

As for picking and choosing, this is committed routinely by those trads who appeal to the 1917 Code of Canon Law with the argument that since veiling wasn't explicitly forbidden by 1983, the law is still in effect. There are many laws in the 1917 Code that were kept more in the breach than in the observance, such as the requirement to have men and women seated in separate sections of the church. Now, no one's made that argument here so far (not that I can see), but it's food for thought.

Telemaque Wrote:We're not talking about hoop skirts and corsets after all.

Speak for yourself. I'm all in favor of the return of corsets and hoop skirts.

StevusMagnus Wrote:Let me know when you're going to wear a dress and practice what you preach.

Wouldn't expect LaRoza to do it, but you know I totally would. If it's a man's dress, that is. (i.e. a robe of some sort, preferably one of my ethnicity's traditional robes)

Actually, I do all the time since I wear a cassock and surplice in the schola... but I do admit to wearing trousers underneath.


LaRoza Wrote:In the civil war period, men did not shave their facial hair, that only because widespread in WWI wear gas attacks were common. Throughout Church history, various people in the Church have pointed out shaving is effeminate. Why isn't it? For what purpose do you shave? You can tell me you know. Why is it you take a razor and run it over your skin? Is it for a specific purpose besides you were brought up that way? Why is it that you do not see it as effeminate besides that it is now culturally acceptable for men to have faces like women?

Very good points. There is far more evidence to suggest that various churchmen thought shaved faces were "faggoty" than long hair was. Probably because those exact same churchmen likely didn't get haircuts, either, or did so very rarely. And of course, later churchmen who did take up shaving still wore long hair, or fake long hair like you see under my screen name.


INPEFESS Wrote:LaRoza, I must say that is very admirable of you. You are the first that I've known to do this.

I like to wear a long coat for the same reason. Sometimes it just feels weird to have my crotch area exposed like that. And this was a common sensibility in the West, actually, untilll.... wait for it.... once again, the World Wars. The rationing of fabrics for uniforms caused coats, which before were typically knee-length, to be cut short... just like head and facial hair. Heh, I tend to be opposed to any change which resulted from either of those godless wars. Same reason I prefer pocketwatches to wristwatches (invented in WWI for soldiers to more quickly check the time by flicking their wrists then reaching into a pocket and opening their time piece, like a real civilized man). If I were a smoker, I would also reject cigarettes from the same principle.


INPEFESS Wrote:There are more males likely to be sexually attracted to and tempted by a woman wearing pants (men are, by nature, more sexually driven) then there are women likely to be sexually attracted to a muscular man (considering that many women are not attracted to a muscular physique, but almost all men are attracted to a woman's physique, it follows that more men are attracted to the very nature of a female's body then women are attracted to a muscular physique of a man's body).

INPEFESS, ever since you explained your screen name, I don't have to look at it to remember how to spell it! Brilliant stuff.

Anyway, I'm not sure what to say to that. For someone as handsome as yours truly, exposing any amount of skin besides the face and hands can be an occasion of sin for ladies of all ages. Even the face and hands too sometimes. [Image: wink.gif]

On a side note, did you know that high heels were originally invented for men? Men of the late Renaissance and 1600's wore high heels for the same reason modern women do: to accentuate the calves, because women back then considered it moderately sexy. Only through stockings, though. Bare legs would have been too much. See the following example of the Duke of Buckingham bowing to King Charles II in the movie <i>The Last King</i> (which, by the way, I'm working on a review for):

[Image: shoes.jpg]

Interestingly, at the very same time in history, it was considered socially acceptable for women to bare their breasts in public. Breasts weren't as eroticized at that time as they are now. And even covered, very many fashionable dresses had plunging necklines or bare shoulders. There was no 2-finger rule like in Cardinal Siri's letter in the 1600's, even among hardline Catholic queens like Henrietta Maria (who partook of the breast-baring fashion herself). But at the same time, it was absolutely a no-no for men to expose their upper arms or shoulders, because those were the most "sexually charged" regions. Interesting, huh?

didishroom Wrote:Why do people wear special clothes to bed? Seems kinda pointless.

Because it's fun..... I guess. <a target="_blank" href="http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/Archbishop10K/dog.jpg">I wear pajamas</a>, and a houserobe.

Quote:And why would you wear a suit at home?

Also because it's fun. Actually, I tend to change into more formal clothes if I know visitors are coming... not necessarily a "suit", though. (a suit is a very specific term for a matching coat, trousers, and perhaps waistcoat, as popularized from the WWI period to the present; if the garments don't match, it doesn't "follow suit" and is thus not actually a suit. The phrase "Victorian suit" is actually kind of a misnomer, since Victorians liked to mix and match their jackets, vests, and pants.)

And finally:

piabee Wrote:The emo pants question has come up before without getting a satisfactory anwer.

Although this might appear to contradict my previous statement about habitually wearing long coats for modesty (as well as awesome factor), I've been flirting with the idea of switching to emo-fitting pants for a while; in the spirit of pre-Napoleonic breeches and stockings, pending actually making good sets of those. Certainly not jeans, though. Jeans are for the working classes. No thanks.




Did I miss anything?



Men's Dress Worn By Women - Historian - 02-07-2009

Harlequin-boy is a walking encyclopedia. Now I'm curious as to what his sources are...(not trying to be condescending, I really want to know)
Quote: I'm all in favor of the return of corsets and hoop skirts.
You like stuffing women in something like that? Wait, you'll probably educate me in explain the details and nuances of making one to shatter that stereotype I hold about them being too tight and 'gut-squeezing'...




Men's Dress Worn By Women - The_Harlequin_King - 02-07-2009

Hotspur Wrote:Harlequin-boy is a walking encyclopedia. Now I'm curious as to what his sources are...(not trying to be condescending, I really want to know)

I'm a history major in college, and besides that, I habitually just read a lot of historical documents or books. I used to cite sources on the forum all the time, but most people don't care, so I just grab things from memory. If anyone asks for a source for a particular thing I say, though, I'm happy to go get one or, if I can't find it, admit I don't have one.

Quote:
Quote:I'm all in favor of the return of corsets and hoop skirts.
You like stuffing women in something like that? Wait, you'll probably educate me in explain the details and nuances of making one to shatter that stereotype I hold about them being too tight and 'gut-squeezing'...

Nah. The actual process of corset-wearing was usually ridiculous and involved multiple corsets and other layers of clothing. That stereotype is totally true. With modern clothing design, though, a modern corset isn't actually so bad.

Compare that with my wig. It's not actually powdered. I used modern dying techniques. Using powder would make an unholy mess everywhere.



Men's Dress Worn By Women - Cantus - 02-07-2009

Yay, HK wins by a mile!!!!!!!!!!






Men's Dress Worn By Women - Historian - 02-07-2009

Hotspur Wrote:You like stuffing women in something like that? Wait, you'll probably educate me in explain the details and nuances of making one to shatter that stereotype I hold about them being too tight and 'gut-squeezing'...

There is a difference between a corset and tightlacing.