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Men's Dress Worn By Women - StevusMagnus - 02-08-2009

Telemaque Wrote:Because a reasonable limit must be established. Your slippery slope argument that if Siri allowed it above where it was then no one can set a limit is completely illegitimate. Above the knee should never be acceptable in Church and is intrinsically immodest. A woman's feet should probably be hidden but gaining practical compliance was more important to him than insisting on too severe a standard. He was using some moderation so as not to upset the women. Sometimes though, steps need to be taken that upset them. It can't be helped.

Thank you.



Men's Dress Worn By Women - StevusMagnus - 02-09-2009

LaRoza I'm sorry that I offended you. I take back what I said. Please know that it was not meant in a serious manner, though that comes across poorly sometimes in written medium.



Men's Dress Worn By Women - Historian - 02-09-2009

StevusMagnus Wrote:LaRoza I'm sorry that I offended you. I take back what I said. Please know that it was not meant in a serious manner, though that comes across poorly sometimes in written medium.

I accept.

If it helps, pretend you are talking directly to a 21 year old tall man with long hair and a beard whose idea of a push up is done in a handstand and it just goes uphill from there. In short, pretend you are talking to me face to face :)

The offense to me was minor, I'm sure Samson would like an apology as well. :)


Men's Dress Worn By Women - newtolatin - 02-09-2009

Telemaque Wrote:
newtolatin Wrote:I have asked the second of these questions twice already in this thread and still haven't gotten an answer. (Also think that some people are arguing for skirts at Mass and some for all the time... that's a little confusing and I think that people should clarify whish they are talking about.)

newtolatin Wrote:Is the argument about wearing dresses/skirts to Mass? Or is it about wearing dresses/skirts all the time?



And what about my question as to why, after centuries of women wearing floor-length skirts, did Cardinal Siri pick half-way up the shin as the standard?

Because a reasonable limit must be established. Your slippery slope argument that if Siri allowed it above where it was then no one can set a limit is completely illegitimate. Above the knee should never be acceptable in Church and is intrinsically immodest. A woman's feet should probably be hidden but gaining practical compliance was more important to him than insisting on too severe a standard. He was using some moderation so as not to upset the women. Sometimes though, steps need to be taken that upset them. It can't be helped.
How did he know that above the feet was not intrinsically immodest? It was considered so for centuries.


Men's Dress Worn By Women - Historian - 02-09-2009

LaRoza Wrote:[quote='StevusMagnus']The woman's hair is long, it is just curled. Common sense to many, revelation to you.
It isn't long. It is quite short in those pictures. [quote]

You are correct, LaRoza. Women's and girls' hair was generally short in the Fifties. The photo of the "Anderson family" from "Father Knows Best" shows the mother and teenaged daughter with short hair which was either pincurled or set on curlers/rollers. They may have had permanent waves, but the hair still had to be set every time it was washed and every night. We slept in those %@#* rollers, which was very uncomfortable. It was more common for girls to have long hair (pony tails) in the Fifties than for women to have long hair. The few women who did have long hair wore it up in a bun or French twist. Very short "pixie" haircuts were common.

[quote]

Watch more movies from the Fifties and the Forties, even the Thirties, and you will see a lot of tight and revealing clothes on the actresses and hear a lot of sexually suggestive lines from actors and actresses. They stayed within the rules, but barely. In real life women and teenaged girls wore tight and revealing clothes, including (gasp!) slacks.

Women wearing slacks became common in the Forties. It's said that this was largely because many women had to go to work in factories during WWII (there weren't enough men not in the military to staff factories) and had to wear slacks to work, became accustomed to their comfort, and started wearing them at home. Through the mid-Sixties, at least where I lived, women and teenaged girls dressed up for church and to go downtown, wearing a hat and gloves along with a suit or good dress and high heels. We rarely wore slacks or shorts outside the home except for picnics, camping trips, horseback riding, etc. You'd have loved it. But you wouldn't have liked the tight straight skirts and tight sweaters we wore to junior high in the late Fifties. :D

Television also showed women in tight and revealing clothes and probably had sexually suggestive lines, too -- lines that would have gone over my head as a child. I read adult novels by the time I was 9 and only later realized how much went over my head. That was a good thing. Explicit sexual content isn't necessary in fiction or movies or television and there is a lot that kids don't need to know. Although perhaps a friend of mine wouldn't have gotten pregnant in seventh grade if she'd known more about the facts of life. :shrug:




Men's Dress Worn By Women - didishroom - 02-10-2009

Quote:Vicious liberal lies and revisionist history!
Actually he's quite on the ball. Vatican II didn't happen in a vacuum. The 60s only happened because of the 50s. The 50s did have this fake image of idealism even within the Church. Yes, people dressed nice for mass and women wore veils but as soon as the Latin Mass was taken away, so was the mask and the liberalism and modernism was revealed, with everyone wondering, "How did that happen? The 50s were so nice and perfect?" Stop watching Leave it To Beaver re-runs and wake up!



Men's Dress Worn By Women - StevusMagnus - 02-10-2009

didishroom Wrote:
Quote:Vicious liberal lies and revisionist history!
Actually he's quite on the ball. Vatican II didn't happen in a vacuum. The 60s only happened because of the 50s. The 50s did have this fake image of idealism even within the Church. Yes, people dressed nice for mass and women wore veils but as soon as the Latin Mass was taken away, so was the mask and the liberalism and modernism was revealed, with everyone wondering, "How did that happen? The 50s were so nice and perfect?" Stop watching Leave it To Beaver re-runs and wake up!


[Image: eyes.gif] We've been through all this before. The key to unlock the devastation was a latent neoultramontanist heresy alive and well bordering on papolotry. When the Popes were good, the Church was good. Then the Popes were not so good and the entire Church followed down the prim rose path.

We sitting here with the benefit of hindsight find it easy to say our grandparents were all a bunch of closet neo-modernists but that is ridiculous. The revolution came from above and a laity that idolized it's leadership was ripe for the dismantling. Their fault lied in a flawed notion of obedience that is alive and well today in their Neo-Cath progeny, not some inherent modernist/ liberal tendencies.



Men's Dress Worn By Women - didishroom - 02-10-2009

There were alot of factors, but if you think Catholicism in America was pure or something that we should return to, then you're dreaming.



Men's Dress Worn By Women - Historian - 02-10-2009

didishroom Wrote:There were alot of factors, but if you think Catholicism in America was pure or something that we should return to, then you're dreaming.

Catholicism in America was very marginal. It was the protestant who ruled.


Men's Dress Worn By Women - StevusMagnus - 02-10-2009

didishroom Wrote:There were alot of factors, but if you think Catholicism in America was pure or something that we should return to, then you're dreaming.


Catholicism was pure doctrinally from above in the 50's. Dissenters were underground and sanctioned. Today doctrinal confusion reigns and heretics are not silenced and instead teach in Catholic Universities.