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Did the Holocaust Jews go to hell? - Printable Version

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Re: Did the Holocaust Jews go to hell? - PeterII - 05-19-2009

(05-19-2009, 03:24 AM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(05-19-2009, 01:56 AM)didishroom Wrote: IN THE FIRST INSTANCE OF HER CONCEPTION.....You cannot be freed from original sin at conception if you do not have a soul at the moment of conception.

Actually, I was curious about this and not sure at all, so I looked it up in the Summa.  St. Thomas seems to say the mechanism by which original sin is transmitted to the soul is through the flesh:

Quote:Reply to Objection 4. The corruption of original sin is nowise caused by God, but by the sin alone of our first parent through carnal generation. And so, since creation implies a relation in the soul to God alone, it cannot be said that the soul is tainted through being created. On the other hand, infusion implies relation both to God infusing and to the flesh into which the soul is infused. And so, with regard to God infusing, it cannot be said that the soul is stained through being infused; but only with regard to the body into which it is infused.

And

Quote:Reply to Objection 2. Original sin spreads in two ways; from the flesh to the soul, and from the essence of the soul to the powers. The former follows the order of generation, the latter follows the order of perfection. Therefore, although the other, viz. the sensitive powers, are more akin to the flesh, yet, since the will, being the higher power, is more akin to the essence of the soul, the infection of original sin reaches it first.

So, if that is correct, and Original Sin is comes from the flesh to the soul, then Mary's flesh could have been Immaculately Conceived before her rational soul was infused, and thus did not corrupt her rational soul when it arrived.

The reality is, as far as I can find, the Church hasn't officially defined how exactly Original Sin is transmitted.  So who knows? :shrug:


From Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:

Quote:Original Sin is transmitted by natural generation.  (De fide) Denzinger 790,791

On the Immaculate Conception pg. 199:

Quote:By conception is to be understood the passive conception.  The first moment of the conception is that moment of time in which the soul was created by God and infused into the bodily matter prepared by her parents.

So how far was that bodily matter developed from the scientific standpoint before infused with an immortal soul?  The Church does not say, but it makes the distinction, whereas didishroom does not.  




Re: Did the Holocaust Jews go to hell? - Historian - 05-19-2009

Thanks for the Denzinger reference!  I stand corrected, and now I know. :)