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Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Printable Version

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Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - columba - 07-06-2009

(07-06-2009, 09:33 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote: As usual, our medieval foremothers have been underestimated and shortchanged.

In the Middle Ages, also known as the age of faith, peasant women absolutely participated in rigorous "football". In fact, the average medieval peasant woman was probably as toned as today's gymrats, if for no other reason than because they had to work the fields all day.

Medieval noble women were expected to know how to hunt with the bow and arrow, to ride (NOT side saddle), and breed falcons.

The following is an account of medieval women and sports from "Women's Sports: A History" by Allen Guttmann.

This all very interesting but histories of women falconing, doing farm-work, and participating in games at medieval fairs does not refute +Williamson's criticism of the modern culture promoting female professional sports, mascullinization, and depopulation.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - columba - 07-06-2009

(07-06-2009, 08:40 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: IT'S BECAUSE ALL THE WOMEN ENTERED SPORTS!!!!!!!! 

Back in the good ol' days, a man could grab anyone woman he wanted, and just drag her off to the cave, or the kitchen.

A shepherd attempts to warn his flock of a spiritual threat irrefutably leading to demographic extinction. The response on a traditional Catholic forum is caveman jokes.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - The_Harlequin_King - 07-06-2009

(07-06-2009, 10:22 PM)columba Wrote: This all very interesting but histories of women falconing, doing farm-work, and participating in games at medieval fairs does not refute +Williamson's criticism of the modern culture promoting female professional sports, mascullinization, and depopulation.

Medieval sports games between women or men and women together were often associated with fertility. A strong, physically active woman was more sexually desirable. It would seem Williamson's argument would put medieval womenfolk in the butch, masculinized crowd.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - columba - 07-06-2009

(07-06-2009, 10:29 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(07-06-2009, 10:22 PM)columba Wrote: This all very interesting but histories of women falconing, doing farm-work, and participating in games at medieval fairs does not refute +Williamson's criticism of the modern culture promoting female professional sports, mascullinization, and depopulation.

Medieval sports games between women or men and women together were often associated with fertility. A strong, physically active woman was more sexually desirable. It would seem Williamson's argument would put medieval womenfolk in the butch, masculinized crowd.

It is fun to read histories speculating about the past but current census bureau reports are less fanciful. Bishop Williamson's argument is not applied to medieval womenfolk. The article is based upon his own eye-witness and well-known demography.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - lamentabili sane - 07-06-2009

(07-06-2009, 10:28 PM)columba Wrote:
(07-06-2009, 08:40 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: IT'S BECAUSE ALL THE WOMEN ENTERED SPORTS!!!!!!!! 

Back in the good ol' days, a man could grab anyone woman he wanted, and just drag her off to the cave, or the kitchen.

A shepherd attempts to warn his flock of a spiritual threat irrefutably leading to demographic extinction. The response on a traditional Catholic forum is caveman jokes.

That's just a way to dismiss the subject without any argument. Rule #5. :)


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Scipio_a - 07-06-2009

Because nothing serious enough for a reasoned and measured response has been advanced by the puritans :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish: :fish:

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Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - devotedknuckles - 07-06-2009

scip u hypnotized :fish: me with all those whacky wackc i had to pinch me self to stop looking
sip sip :fish: :fish:


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Anastasia - 07-06-2009

(07-06-2009, 09:51 PM)columba Wrote:
(07-06-2009, 08:40 PM)Anastasia Wrote:
(07-06-2009, 08:34 PM)columba Wrote:
(07-06-2009, 08:09 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: well perhaps a return to the cave man club em then F>>> em would produce what you want.?  perhaps this is more complex then you think?
sip sip

Again, the problem is very clear to non-Westerners. Ask one what they think about our professional sports for women. The rest of the world laughs at us as they repopulate our countries. No joke.
Just to non-Catholic westerners. The Muslims spreading throughout Europe don't have a balanced, Christian idea of the relations between the sexes, so what they think is the problem doesn't matter. No luck with getting Catholic non-westerners to support your view? How annoying.

Over the past couple decades, I have been friends with a Catholic Arab, Catholic Ethiopians, a Catholic Nigerian, and a Catholic South Americans. I forget how the topic of female professional sports came up, but I mainly I remember them saying "We don't do that," with an air of condescension, pity, and bemusement. Do you know any non-Western Catholics? Why don't you get their reaction on and get back to us.

If you think Muslims are so unbalanced, why do you resent +Williamson's exposing the cultural rot enabling Muslim repopulation of Europe?
And my non-Western Catholic friends see nothing wrong with women's sports. Do you see your double standard? You demand that all your experiences are to be taken as representative of the whole, while everybody else's are an aberration. You did the same thing when Harlequin King pointed out the existence of women's sports in the Middle Ages. As usual, HK for the win!
As to the last remark, you again assume that Williamson is self-evidently right about the cause of culture collapse, so that disagreeing with him means agreeing with Muslims repopulating Europe. A clear non-sequitur.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - The_Harlequin_King - 07-06-2009

(07-06-2009, 10:42 PM)columba Wrote: It is fun to read histories speculating about the past but current census bureau reports are less fanciful. Bishop Williamson's argument is not applied to medieval womenfolk. The article is based upon his own eye-witness and well-known demography.

Based on the article alone, all I can see is that Williamson thinks tennis makes women infertile. A lot of what I'm gathering from Williamson is from his supporters in this thread:

Gerard Wrote:It is the anti-femininity of professional sports that makes it immoral.

Gerard Wrote:I'm explaining Bishop Williamson's position.


There are also a number of posters who have suggested that women didn't play sports until modern times, a notion which is obviously false.

If, in fact, Williamson's position is that women playing sports or engaging in hard physical activity is wrong (I'm not saying for a fact that it is or isn't; only going by the attitudes of certain posters here), then it damns the women of Christendom's most faithful age. And that is a problem, especially when trads habitually cite "the way things were done before the Council" as a measuring stick of faithfulness.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Binx - 07-06-2009

(07-06-2009, 11:02 PM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(07-06-2009, 10:42 PM)columba Wrote: It is fun to read histories speculating about the past but current census bureau reports are less fanciful. Bishop Williamson's argument is not applied to medieval womenfolk. The article is based upon his own eye-witness and well-known demography.

Based on the article alone, all I can see is that Williamson thinks tennis makes women infertile. A lot of what I'm gathering from Williamson is from his supporters in this thread:

Yet here are the Bishop's own words:

"Tennis is then a gladiatorial sport in which a thundering service, powered drives to the baseline and vollies punched away are at a premium, making physical strength and stamina, a fighting spirit and the will to dominate all-important. These being male prerogatives, naturally the women do their best to imitate men, which may flatter macho pride, but do we men ever stop to think how we are de-naturing our womenfolk by admiring and encouraging them to gladiate? The one gladiatrix who might have looked graceful the other evening turned graceless the moment she prepared to deal out or receive balled thunder!"

Which leads to Gerard's accurate summary, as you have quoted it:
Gerard Wrote:It is the anti-femininity of professional sports that makes it immoral.


Which then verifies the following claim (also from your post):
Gerard Wrote:I'm explaining Bishop Williamson's position.


The Harlequin King Wrote:There are also a number of posters who have suggested that women didn't play sports until modern times,


What number of posters have suggested this? Were they suggesting that women never played any sports at all, or rather that until modern times, they didn't give their lives to being professional athletes?

The Harlequin King Wrote:If, in fact, Williamson's position is that women playing sports or engaging in hard physical activity is wrong (I'm not saying for a fact that it is or isn't;

It isn't.