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Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Printable Version

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Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - lamentabili sane - 07-07-2009

(07-07-2009, 01:40 PM)Underdog Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 11:58 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 11:35 AM)Underdog Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 11:10 AM)Binx Wrote:
CollegeCatholic Wrote:Do I have an obligation to understand and know moral theology?

Yes, insofar as it comes to bear practically on your own life and on your discernment regarding the cultural mores of the time and place in which you live.

No, you do not have an obligation to understand and know moral theology unless your vocation is for religious life or a profession (law, medicine, etc.).

How do you form your conscience then? Especially on the complex moral issues that are encountered more in the lay state than the religious state.

Catechism.

Yes, the Catechism. And moral theology deals with the application of the catechism. It is a further explanation of the catechism which may be required in more complex situations.

Quote:Theology is a subject for those who have a firm foundation in catechism, scripture, and philosophy (only "lettered" men, so to speak)

Usually a priest, who was taught from the Theology Manuals in the seminary. The advice the priest would (should) give you comes (in principle) from the manuals.

The Catechism Explained, by Spirago-Clark is advantagous to read and provides a deeper understanding of the Catechism. You're not against that are you? :)



Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - MagisterMusicae - 07-07-2009

(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:44 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
CollegeCatholic Wrote:Apparently one can be both a mother and a professional tennis player at the same time.

I do think you've completely missed the point.

Commandments Left on the Cutting Room Floor:
Commandment Number 11:
Thou shalt not criticize Bishop Williamson of the SSPX - he is perpetually right.  When he is right, he's really right.  When he's wrong, well, he's never wrong, you're just reading him wrong.

CollegeCatholic,

What does this comment have to do with what Bishop Williamson wrote?

The bishop is neither perpetually right, nor does disagreement mean you're "reading him wrong".

What you imply here is that one cannot be a mother and a professional tennis player at the same time. You suggest that because a woman took a break from tennis, had one baby and is now back at it, this proves the point that the bishop is wrong.

If that's the case, you indeed, completely miss the point of the argument. You're miles off.

If not, you might care to explain your thinking here, because it seems like you missed the point, or you're building a straw man.

It's also a bit condecending to suggest, when someone points out that you may have misunderstood the point, to retort with such sarcasm. Bishop Williamson has no infallibility, but for all his faults, he's a elder to most of us, much more experienced, and has a grace of state most of us do not. That's doesn't guarantee he's right. He's been awful wrong before, and he's not to best tactician, as the last six months have demonstrated.

So then it's reasonable to ask: Who is the one that "must be" perpetually right? Is your reading necessarily the correct one? Are you sure that you've figured out what the bishop really was saying? I wish I had that certainty.

The bishop may be wrong here, he may be partially right, or it may be a mixed bag.

Was the bishops point that one cannot be a mother and professional tennis player? I don't see that assertion in the writing.

I think it's pretty clear that a woman who took a break from professional sports to have a baby, had to quit tennis at least for a while. You cannot play professional sports and be pregnant. Heck, I know fit women who are just a month pregnant (or find out they were) and have had serious trouble with some reasonably easy hiking. If pregnancy can keep a some fit women from hiking, pregnancy most definitely stops or at least puts a athletic career on hold. Thus she was not a tennis player when she was pregnant. If she is married now and still plans to "return" to tennis, then it's pretty clear that she's not planning on having another child soon (otherwise she might not be able to return). Thus it's almost a given she's contracepting (primarily because if she's to compete in tennis she can't be pregnant at the same time). And hence, we have one more instance of the voluntary sterilization of a woman for the sake of professional sports.

No one, even the bishop, suggested that if a woman has a baby, she cannot also continue some athletics and still be a good mother. One thing is certain, if she's a professional, she's not going to be becoming a mother for another child very soon unless she's taking a break from that career.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Tulkas - 07-07-2009

If a women is pregnant, it can most definitely enhance their weightlifting.  Especially when pregnant with a boy because of the testosterone.  I have seen this myself.  So no need to stop weightlifting when pregnant.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - ErinIsNice - 07-07-2009

(07-07-2009, 03:10 PM)Tulkas Wrote: If a women is pregnant, it can most definitely enhance their weightlifting.  Especially when pregnant with a boy because of the testosterone.  I have seen this myself.  So no need to stop weightlifting when pregnant.

Except that pregnancy also loosens your joints, and makes you more prone to joint injuries.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Tulkas - 07-07-2009

(07-07-2009, 03:38 PM)ErinIsNice Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 03:10 PM)Tulkas Wrote: If a women is pregnant, it can most definitely enhance their weightlifting.  Especially when pregnant with a boy because of the testosterone.  I have seen this myself.  So no need to stop weightlifting when pregnant.

Except that pregnancy also loosens your joints, and makes you more prone to joint injuries.

True.  I was never implying powerlifting or bodybuilding (actually can't phantom that while pregnant).  Just moderate weightlifting.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Underdog - 07-07-2009

(07-07-2009, 02:56 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: I think it's pretty clear that a woman who took a break from professional sports to have a baby, had to quit tennis at least for a while. You cannot play professional sports and be pregnant. Heck, I know fit women who are just a month pregnant (or find out they were) and have had serious trouble with some reasonably easy hiking. If pregnancy can keep a some fit women from hiking, pregnancy most definitely stops or at least puts a athletic career on hold. Thus she was not a tennis player when she was pregnant. If she is married now and still plans to "return" to tennis, then it's pretty clear that she's not planning on having another child soon (otherwise she might not be able to return). Thus it's almost a given she's contracepting (primarily because if she's to compete in tennis she can't be pregnant at the same time). And hence, we have one more instance of the voluntary sterilization of a woman for the sake of professional sports.

No one, even the bishop, suggested that if a woman has a baby, she cannot also continue some athletics and still be a good mother. One thing is certain, if she's a professional, she's not going to be becoming a mother for another child very soon unless she's taking a break from that career.

It may be true that a professional tennis player has to take a break from competition, and certain women may have to stop playing altogether, but many women still workout actively while pregnant.  My aerobics instructor taught through her pregnancy, and I was in a step class with a very pregnant woman who was just amazing.

Does a teacher cease to be a teacher during summer break?  No.  Neither does a professional tennis player who takes a break (to have a child) cease to be a tennis player.

She may not intend to have more children right away.  She may have decided to get back into competitive tennis until she becomes pregnant again.  Or she may not be able to have more children (emergency hysterectomy during c-section could be one reason).  It is pure speculation as to why she is reentering the profession, whether she plans to have more children, or if she is using contraceptives, at least with the information we have.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - lamentabili sane - 07-07-2009

(07-07-2009, 06:07 PM)Underdog Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 02:56 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: I think it's pretty clear that a woman who took a break from professional sports to have a baby, had to quit tennis at least for a while. You cannot play professional sports and be pregnant. Heck, I know fit women who are just a month pregnant (or find out they were) and have had serious trouble with some reasonably easy hiking. If pregnancy can keep a some fit women from hiking, pregnancy most definitely stops or at least puts a athletic career on hold. Thus she was not a tennis player when she was pregnant. If she is married now and still plans to "return" to tennis, then it's pretty clear that she's not planning on having another child soon (otherwise she might not be able to return). Thus it's almost a given she's contracepting (primarily because if she's to compete in tennis she can't be pregnant at the same time). And hence, we have one more instance of the voluntary sterilization of a woman for the sake of professional sports.

No one, even the bishop, suggested that if a woman has a baby, she cannot also continue some athletics and still be a good mother. One thing is certain, if she's a professional, she's not going to be becoming a mother for another child very soon unless she's taking a break from that career.

It may be true that a professional tennis player has to take a break from competition, and certain women may have to stop playing altogether, but many women still workout actively while pregnant.  My aerobics instructor taught through her pregnancy, and I was in a step class with a very pregnant woman who was just amazing.

Does a teacher cease to be a teacher during summer break?  No.  Neither does a professional tennis player who takes a break (to have a child) cease to be a tennis player.

She may not intend to have more children right away.  She may have decided to get back into competitive tennis until she becomes pregnant again.  Or she may not be able to have more children (emergency hysterectomy during c-section could be one reason).  It is pure speculation as to why she is reentering the profession, whether she plans to have more children, or if she is using contraceptives, at least with the information we have.

The observations are general. I'm surprised you can't see that. Giving individual examples that we cannot know about is irrelevant.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - didishroom - 07-07-2009

But that's just it-so what right do others have to say that women in professional sports are all guilty of a contraceptive culture?


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - lamentabili sane - 07-07-2009

(07-07-2009, 07:14 PM)didishroom Wrote: But that's just it-so what right do others have to say that women in professional sports are all guilty of a contraceptive culture?

A generalization does not indict ALL persons contained within the generalization. It is a generalization.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - geogeer - 07-07-2009

Athletic interlude



Is this being immoral or not? (Just keeping things fresh - it is amazing though)