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Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Printable Version

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Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - MagisterMusicae - 07-05-2009

(07-05-2009, 04:33 PM)didishroom Wrote: Dancing is a very competitive and exhausting sport. If cycling messes up women's cycles I'm sure dancing does too.

Didi,

I'm not so much sure that the Bishop (or Columba) is intending to communicate that women's sports mess up the natural ability of women to have children, since they often disrupt a woman's cycle. Nor is the bishop saying that the primary problem with the world is women's sports, it only provides a very convenient platform. The primary problem is the loss of the Faith. Secondarily there are other problems and many symptoms of this disease. This platform is merely a convenient symptom of the larger problem. This is not to say that I agree with the extent of the platform, but the essence of the argument is solid.

The issue is with the inherent difference in a man and a woman and training and sports interfere with each.

Perhaps it is better put this way:

A man has three primary vocations: Husband/Father, Single Layman, Religious

A woman has three primary vocations: Wife/Mother, Single Layman, Religious

Most men and women are not called to be celibate and single laymen for any more than a few years past their entry into adulthood. Some are called to a single vocation for longer, only a few permanently so.

We can guess that from Saints' words, that a third of men (and thus probably a third of women) are called to a religious vocation.

That leaves almost two-thirds of all men and women who are are called a vocation in the married state. Nearly all of these are called to be parents. The primary purpose of that union is procreation. Only in a grave situation is periodic continence permitted.

Many, however, are not getting married and procreating as God desires, instead most are contracepting away most or all of their children. Women's sports are not a primary cause of this, but again, a convenient platform because the problem here is so obvious.

I think it is silly that we have a culture that pays anyone millions of dollars a year to play games for our entertainment. I find it even sillier that we actually dedicate significant parts of our lives and thought to these silly games, as if they actually matter.

That said, for a man who trains to the extent that a serious athlete needs, the only problem for him marrying and becoming a father is the amount of time he must dedicate to the sport and to training. Often this is a problem, but plainly put, being an athlete does not inherently interfere with his ability to be a father.

For a woman this is decidedly different. It is not because a woman with "buff arms" is less feminine, nor that she's messing up her period by training. Instead, it is because a woman who is seriously training and competing must not become pregnant because it ends a woman's career in most cases, or means that for at least four months, if not longer, a woman cannot train or compete. It is common knowledge in high school and college sports that coaches instruct women to use the pill or other contraception, not to end their period, but to prevent pregnancy, since that would end their season, and very likely their success in sports.

It is impossible for women to train heavily and compete in a sport if they are also open to conception. Playing sports is not an grave reason, so NFP is out. The only moral option is for an unmarried Catholic woman to abstain and not marry during her sports career. For a married woman the only moral option is for her to train and compete, but be prepared to give up the sport if she became pregnant. Needless to say, that is not how things actually work in women's sports.

Nearly all serious female athletes must contracept. If a woman must abstain in order to train and compete for her sport, then she could not be married. Thus we have two problems. Professional women's sports cause women to contracept in order to be an athlete, or Professional sports force a woman to delay marriage in order to compete.

Moral quandry? Indeed.

The discussion about the "de-naturing" of sports is then, less about a "woman's place" or about "leaving the kitchen" and more about how our modern world encourages young women to put off marriage and to contracept in the name of athleticism.

The difference between Tennis in the days of the Globe Theatre and professional Tennis today is that it was a recreation for ladies who could compete when their duties as mothers and women did not interfere and today it is for women to interfere with their duties as women and mothers.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - columba - 07-05-2009

(07-05-2009, 04:33 PM)didishroom Wrote: Well I'm glad you want to get back to Williamson's opinions which is what is the point of the topic.

I'm sorry but I laughed at your suggestions for women sports in light of your disagreement of something like Tennis.
Dancing is a very competitive and exhausting sport. If cycling messes up women's cycles I'm sure dancing does too. The muscles women build in their legs from dancing could rival the average man's. Ballet dancing is also an almost cruel sport that I don't think I would want my daughter playing, for it destroys a girl's feet and before she is thirty is already washed up and is stuck with being an instructor. I also find it amusing that the ballet was very controversial when it first originated for it was seen as highly erotic and improper for Christians. The same goes for women's gymnastics. I know a woman who used to swim and though very lady like and feminine she has the broadest shoulders I've ever seen on a woman and no chest. So tell me why something like Tennis is wrong for women to engage in but these sports you mentioned are ok, especially since they bring the same criticisms Women's Tennis received on this thread?

Again there are no hard fast rule here but the general idea is that girls do best to grow up lady-like. In many families, dance class is a practical alternative to mixed sport teams or nothing. For young ladies that may be called to marriage, discreet physical activity helps in maintaining a graceful figure while hard-core athleticism creates a jock-effect that makes young ladies noticeably less attractive IMO and the opinion of others. "Meat market" fitness centers are an obvious occasion of sin.

Casual and modestly-dressed tennis may be a good activity for some women but the notoriously lesbian-dominated world of women's professional sports is positively unladylilke.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - ErinIsNice - 07-05-2009

(07-04-2009, 09:54 PM)Gerard Wrote: When a woman stands before the judgement seat of God, He probably won't be congratulating her about her serve.  He will probably be asking her to justify her service.  Serving meals for a family is absolutely a greater act than serving tennis balls on a court.

I have a feeling God will have some harsh words for the men who devoted their whole lives to sports (instead of Him) also.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Gerard - 07-05-2009

(07-05-2009, 02:49 PM)flannerywannabe Wrote: I just find the choice of focus funny and strange. I don't think that it's a "de-naturing" if an unmarried female athlete's cycles become irregular or temporarily cease during the season of her life when she is playing. When she gets ready to retire (still relatively early in life for most athletes), she'll presumably stop the high-level training that causes this to happen, and when she returns to normal activity levels, she'll become fertile again and be able to marry and raise a family. Indeed she'll be uniquely well equipped, physically at least, because of her excellent health.

It doesn't happen that way when women push themselves into the overtraining necessary to reach the standards they are tying to reach.  I know a once-professional ballerina who has never developed a normal cycle because of the wreckage that craft inflicted.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - SaintRafael - 07-05-2009

(07-05-2009, 04:39 PM)didishroom Wrote: I already explained why women's sports are considered boring and are not popular for viewing. This still does not constitute proof of it's "un-naturalness." As it currently stands the NO is more popular than the TLM....does popularity equal validity?

That's not a correct analogy or comparison because the N.O. is not more popular than the TLM.

The fact is that the TLM has been illegally suppressed for forty years by another inferior rite. Today's Novus Ordo Catholics have never had the opportunity to experience the TLM. All they get is the N.O. and it is the only Mass they have ever known. If the TLM and N.O were celebrated in every parish side by side every week, the N.O. would be history in a couple of years.

The TLM used to have at least 75% Mass attendance before it was suppressed. The N.O. is not even popular among all Catholics. 75% of Catholics don't go to Mass every Sunday. A Mass that has 25% approval is not popular, nor a success.


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Gerard - 07-05-2009

(07-05-2009, 05:31 PM)ErinIsNice Wrote:
(07-04-2009, 09:54 PM)Gerard Wrote: When a woman stands before the judgement seat of God, He probably won't be congratulating her about her serve.  He will probably be asking her to justify her service.  Serving meals for a family is absolutely a greater act than serving tennis balls on a court.

I have a feeling God will have some harsh words for the men who devoted their whole lives to sports (instead of Him) also.

A man can easily become narcissistic and more than the majority probably do neglect God for their careers in sports.  But sports are not against a man's physical nature.  He doesn't become impotent when he trains.  Sports are derived from military exercises, a man is the natural defender.  So sports are simply a watered down recollection of the martial spirit, which found its apex in Chivalry.   A man who provides for a family in such a way and can even turn his celebrity into an opportunity to save souls can be quite noble.  


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - didishroom - 07-05-2009

Quote:Casual and modestly-dressed tennis may be a good activity for some women but the notoriously lesbian-dominated world of women's professional sports is positively unladylilke.

You're right: real lesbos....

[Image: maria_sharapova_shorts.jpg]

[Image: 70376ca2e4anna.jpg]



Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - didishroom - 07-05-2009

Quote:It doesn't happen that way when women push themselves into the overtraining necessary to reach the standards they are tying to reach.  I know a once-professional ballerina who has never developed a normal cycle because of the wreckage that craft inflicted.

Weren't you just advocating dance for women as acceptable?


Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Gerard - 07-05-2009

(07-05-2009, 05:25 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote: Many, however, are not getting married and procreating as God desires, instead most are contracepting away most or all of their children. Women's sports are not a primary cause of this, but again, a convenient platform because the problem here is so obvious. ...Thus we have two problems. Professional women's sports cause women to contracept in order to be an athlete, or Professional sports force a woman to delay marriage in order to compete.

Excellent points.  It's the Obama mentality of "the burden of children" coupled with desire for "something else."  The devil often inspires people to do things that are wrong and against nature because he engenders a lust for some other thing, person, achievement, quality of life and the natural course of life and the state of life becomes an obstacle instead of the object of focus in one's life.




Re: Bp W column, 7.4.09 - Gerard - 07-05-2009

(07-05-2009, 05:46 PM)didishroom Wrote:
Quote:It doesn't happen that way when women push themselves into the overtraining necessary to reach the standards they are tying to reach.  I know a once-professional ballerina who has never developed a normal cycle because of the wreckage that craft inflicted.

Weren't you just advocating dance for women as acceptable?

Dance and sports are acceptable.  It's the mentality of competitive dance and sports that leads to the abuse of those sports and crafts.  After that the lust for success leads to the denial of nature.  Instead of dance and sports enriching in a way that builds up her femininity, she sacrifices her femininity in order to satisfy the demands of the sport or craft.