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Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - Printable Version

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Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - devotedknuckles - 08-02-2009

TWISTED BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
sip sip


Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - Ravenonthecross - 08-02-2009

Outside of the Catholic there is absolutely no salvation. 

All one can do is beg, beseech, and plead with our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to give the necessary graces to have "true Divine Faith" to those non-Catholics [whether he sends a preacher, angel, or appears to a person himself to offer the soul]  to give a soul the opportunity to accept the Holy Catholic Faith as the One true faith].

IT is God alone  who  knows will accept it; ergo he'll give the necessary graces to those who are open to the Holy Catholic Faith, so that they may convert before death, if they co-operate with said grace and accept the Holy Catholic Faith as true and Christ as true Messias and Son of the Living God: they'll be saved.

AND NOT OTHERWISE.    All who go to have to enter as a Catholic, no one who's not a Catholic will enter heaven; only those who've become Catholic prior their death have a chance [if they obeyed God's WILL] at heaven.:pray:


All else is mere speculation.


Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - Joseph11 - 08-02-2009

(08-02-2009, 05:34 PM)Stubborn Wrote:
(08-02-2009, 05:29 PM)nsper7 Wrote:
Quote:How to explain that church books, teachings, catechisms etc. have been adulterated, infiltrated and manipulated to help water down / destroy the faith and has been going on at least since the invention of the printing press- good luck.

But the Catechism is the teaching of the Catholic Church. If you tell a non-Catholic that the Catechism is wrong, how do you think they will respond?

They'll probably look at you like you're nuts lol.

Don't worry, you get used to it after a while.  :)

It's hard to tell someone raised in the Protestant traditions that a BOOK containing sacred things is wrong or unclear.  The Mormons get around it however by claiming that the Book of Mormon has only had one edition and is perfectly clear in every way. ;)


Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - Stubborn - 08-02-2009

(08-02-2009, 08:14 PM)Zakhur Wrote: It's hard to tell someone raised in the Protestant traditions that a BOOK containing sacred things is wrong or unclear.  The Mormons get around it however by claiming that the Book of Mormon has only had one edition and is perfectly clear in every way. ;)

It can be hard, usually because you're talking to one who has hardened himself against the truth.




Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - sheep101 - 08-03-2009

The are a few reasons for it:

Many people incorrectly think that saying that there is no salvation outside the church is impolite or mean. They think and rightly so in many cases that if a non-Christian(or heretic) hears that there is no salvation outside of the church, they will take it as a personal insult.

Many people have a hard time accepting the idea of eternal damnation, and are only comfortable thinking about people like Hitler(who is the usual lonely soul in hell in their minds) in hell, and not any "normal" people, and they especially have a hard time believing people go to hell for simply not being in the Church because this seems to them to be an unimportant fact, and what really counts in their minds is how nice a person is, how tolerant they are.

Many people subconsciously or consciously do not accept the full reality of the sinfulness of man.

Semipelagianism and pelagianism has infected the minds(knowingly or unknowingly) of many people in the church.



Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - PeterII - 08-03-2009

Judging by the moral state of the average Catholic, it can be argued that there is not much salvation happening inside the Catholic Church too.

And it makes no sense to combat the grave theological error of universal salvation with the grave theological error of Feenyism.  Sins of excess and sins of defect are both sins. 


Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - Valz - 08-03-2009

(08-03-2009, 04:56 AM)PeterII Wrote: And it makes no sense to combat the grave theological error of universal salvation with the grave theological error of Feenyism.  Sins of excess and sins of defect are both sins.

But since when is affirming EENS equal to Feenyism?

It is of no advantage to our evangelization efforts to be proclaiming the possibility that a non-Catholic may be saved outside The Church. It is the exception, not the rule and it we would be presuming on God's grace if we simply assume that the non-Catholic will be saved and neglect proclaiming the dogma.


Valz


Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - glgas - 08-03-2009

(08-03-2009, 04:56 AM)PeterII Wrote: Judging by the moral state of the average Catholic, it can be argued that there is not much salvation happening inside the Catholic Church too.

And it makes no sense to combat the grave theological error of universal salvation with the grave theological error of Feenyism.  Sins of excess and sins of defect are both sins. 

As always, we had to find the balance between well established facts:

- only God is the judge
- God does not depends on any earthly institution (such dependence would make him changing)
- God is mercyful
- the Church is necessary

Historically we all shall meditate on the sin of the pharisee, who believed that Exra Legem nulla salus, and Jesus clearly rejected them

laszlo


Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - James02 - 08-03-2009

Quote:
- only God is the judge
- God does not depends on any earthly institution (such dependence would make him changing)
- God is mercyful
- the Church is necessary

ADDED
- God set up the "earthly institution".  He established it as the only way to salvation.  Actually calling it an "earthly institution" is somewhat heretical if not clarified.
- The Church has declared that there is no salvation outside the Church
- Jesus said you had to be baptized to be saved.
- We can not judge an individual person. 



Re: Why do so many Catholics drop the ball when it comes to EENS? - didishroom - 08-03-2009

Quote:As always, we had to find the balance between well established facts:

- only God is the judge
- God does not depends on any earthly institution (such dependence would make him changing)
- God is mercyful
- the Church is necessary

Historically we all shall meditate on the sin of the pharisee, who believed that Exra Legem nulla salus, and Jesus clearly rejected them

laszlo

True God does not "depend" on anything but like you said, He is unchanging. His word does not change and His word has spoken of what is necessary for slavation.

To enquire further is dangerous.

Yes, God is too all merciful! That means if we see one one appears to die outside the Church, we should NOT judge their soul but also realize that if they died outside the Church then they were never going to join Her. God does not damn those who wished to join the Church. We, more accurately, damn ourselves and no one trule dies too early.