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What is and should constitute Social Justice - AntoniusMaximus - 08-31-2009

I often hear how the more leftward of our Catholic brethern that social justice is the most important thing like ever.  And of course I look at their social justice pages and I find groups such as Greenpeace and other leftwing kooks.  Obviously, the Saul Alinsky types have hijacked it and turned it into something that it was never supposed to be.  I don't think the popes or saints thought soaking  the rich, universal healthcare, environmental extremism, and anti-human measures (you know reproductive "rights") constitutes social justice

I reckon I could read all of Belloc's posts but I don't have that kind of time.  So in a nutshell what should constitute Social Justice (please refrain from encyclicals and other documents unless you are going to explain them in your own words, because well I went to public school so I don't know big words)


Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - SCG - 08-31-2009

Most of us want to live in a just society, but our different political ideologies have different conceptions of what a “just society” is.

First, determine that social justice and charity aren’t the same. Charity is the highest principle – an act of mercy over justice, motivated by love of God and love of neighbor, without compromising faith and morals and without expecting any returns.

Now, Christian charity should naturally rouse a desire for social justice. Social justice demands human equity, fair treatment and the common good. It demands that unjust systems be corrected so that injustices don’t keep occurring. Catholic Social Justice takes it a step further by giving “preferential options” for the poor – based on the Scripture’s constant admonition to feed the hungry, and care for the widows and orphans.

But not everyone who is involved in social justice is doing it for charity’s sake. Just as not everyone who gives to charity cares about the common good or correcting unjust systems.

For Catholics, our sense of social justice should be generated by Christian charity, backed by the Church’s moral teachings and the Ten Commandments. Social justice should never replace charity, but for many liberals it has done exactly that.

- Lisa


Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - Marc - 08-31-2009

"In the Christian obsessed with "social justice" it isn't easy to discern whether charity is flourishing or faith is expiring."
~ Nicolás Gómez Dávila


Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - jovan66102 - 08-31-2009

(08-31-2009, 03:14 PM)Marc Wrote: "In the Christian obsessed with "social justice" it isn't easy to discern whether charity is flourishing or faith is expiring."
~ Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Are his writings available (in English) anywhere online?


Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - Marc - 08-31-2009

(08-31-2009, 03:17 PM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(08-31-2009, 03:14 PM)Marc Wrote: "In the Christian obsessed with "social justice" it isn't easy to discern whether charity is flourishing or faith is expiring."
~ Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Are his writings available (in English) anywhere online?

Sadly, as far as I know, the two hundred or so selections reproduced below from his five volumes of aphorisms are all that exists in English online.

http://www.mgilleland.com/ngd.htm
http://zeta.math.utsa.edu/~yxk833/davila.html


Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - James02 - 08-31-2009

Instead of worrying about social "justice", we should worry about social mercy.  In a just world, people who don't work starve to death.  The only time you want justice is when you want a contract settled fairly.

However, the commies don't want to call it social mercy, because that would mean a lot of people taking responsibility for how they screwed up their lives.  And it draws attention to the fact that you giving them money or relief of some sort is undeserved.  It is an act of mercy.


Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - glgas - 08-31-2009

If you pretend that you can fly and throw yourself out for the top of a high building, with great probability you will die, because you breach the law of nature. (you can not fly w/o equipment)

If one individual or nation breach the social justice ( as we do ) with some delay, but certainly that individual or nation will be destroyed, because it is breaking of the law that we human beings depend on each other.

The only difference between the physical and moral law is, that the later has delayed consequences. We need the revealed moral law, including the golden rule, to prevent us from the natural long term consequences of our actions. God does not make evil, we do that for each other. The fool thinks that he can be unjust for others without others being unjust for him.

laszlo


(08-31-2009, 01:59 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: I often hear how the more leftward of our Catholic brethern that social justice is the most important thing like ever.  And of course I look at their social justice pages and I find groups such as Greenpeace and other leftwing kooks.  Obviously, the Saul Alinsky types have hijacked it and turned it into something that it was never supposed to be.   I don't think the popes or saints thought soaking  the rich, universal healthcare, environmental extremism, and anti-human measures (you know reproductive "rights") constitutes social justice

I reckon I could read all of Belloc's posts but I don't have that kind of time.  So in a nutshell what should constitute Social Justice (please refrain from encyclicals and other documents unless you are going to explain them in your own words, because well I went to public school so I don't know big words)



Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - AntoniusMaximus - 09-01-2009

(08-31-2009, 03:58 PM)James02 Wrote: Instead of worrying about social "justice", we should worry about social mercy.  In a just world, people who don't work starve to death.  The only time you want justice is when you want a contract settled fairly.

However, the commies don't want to call it social mercy, because that would mean a lot of people taking responsibility for how they screwed up their lives.  And it draws attention to the fact that you giving them money or relief of some sort is undeserved.  It is an act of mercy.

I agree with you whole heartedly James02.  Like i have been thinking quite about justice lately.  To me, justice always comes, it may take time but gross abuse will not go unchecked.  However, when that abuse is unchecked what happens?  The oppressed become the oppressors.  What we need is more forgiveness and mercy in our society. 


Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - iggyting - 09-01-2009

I read the Church's Social Teachings, of which social justice is included, can be summarized into ten principles:-

(1) The human person is the center - dignity of the Human Person, the image and likeness of God
(2) The human person as a social being - the Principle of Association
(3) Communities should be allowed (and helped) to flourish - the Principle of Subsidiarity
(4) All should participate in the community - the Principle of Participation
(5) For the good of all - the principle of the Common Good
(6) Earth's resources belong to all - the Principle of the Universal Destination of Goods
(7) We all share in the world's blessings and sufferings - the Principle of Solidarity
(8) Work is holy - the principle of the Dignity of Work
(9) We are stewards of the world's environment - the principle of the Dignity of Creation
(10) Peace to the world - the Principle of the Promotion of Peace

The Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes, among others in Scripture, form the basis of the Social Teachings of the Church.


Re: What is and should constitute Social Justice - James02 - 09-01-2009

Quote: (1) The human person is the center - dignity of the Human Person, the image and likeness of God
(2) The human person as a social being - the Principle of Association
(3) Communities should be allowed (and helped) to flourish - the Principle of Subsidiarity
(4) All should participate in the community - the Principle of Participation
(5) For the good of all - the principle of the Common Good
(6) Earth's resources belong to all - the Principle of the Universal Destination of Goods
(7) We all share in the world's blessings and sufferings - the Principle of Solidarity
(Cool Work is holy - the principle of the Dignity of Work
(9) We are stewards of the world's environment - the principle of the Dignity of Creation
(10) Peace to the world - the Principle of the Promotion of Peace
1.  God is the center.  Man is a fallen being. 
2.  So what?
3.  Communities shouldn't be "allowed" crap.  Communities have basic rights, based on the Church and natural law.  We don't need any "allowance" or
permission to raise our kids, etc...
4.  Maybe this means non-discrimination?  Within limits, I agree.
5.  What exactly does that mean, precisely?
6.  No they don't.  What I own is mine.  What my neighbor owns is his.  This is the teaching of the Catholic Church.
7.  No we don't.  That is a ridiculous statement.
8.  Agree.
9.  We are to exploit the Earth for the good of Man.  But yes, we should be responsible with our actions, for the sole purpose of leaving resources for future generations.
10.  Defense of Christendom.