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Re: Traditional organizations? - damooster - 11-05-2009

I never realized it before, but after looking at the map, I see that I pass by St. Athanasius all of the time. I thought that place was a Methodist church so I never glanced at it twice, but I will check it out and report back to you guys. Thanks for all of your help in this thread so far.

As for the community aspect I'm looking for, ImpyTerwilliger hit it right on the head: I'm looking for a community of like-minded people that don't run each other over at the end of Mass because they seem like they can't get out of there fast enough.

Here's my last question, and sorry if it requires a long answer: how is a Mass valid but illicit? Is this the case with St. Athanasius...in other words, would I be fulfilling my Sunday obligation if I attended Mass there?


Re: Traditional organizations? - glgas - 11-05-2009

I did not said that socializing is sin, I only stated the fact that usually Catholics do not socialize related to the Mass.

Any protestant minister (and the New Mass priests) after the service or mass go out to shake hand with the congregation, to listen to them, answer questions, and initiate socialization. This was never done after the traditional mass.  People used the time after mass to communicate, but this was also the place of the gossip, and quite often the gossip as sin was denounced on the sermons.

We Catholics are 'we' people, that our 'we' is not a small group but the whole world, we are Catholics = Universal, for everyone is the earth. The small group sentiment, 'we against the world', the ghetto spirit  is alien from the true traditional catholic thinking, and it is frightening that it starts to get rooted into the traditional groups, we against the 'NO people' There is no such distinction, our mission is for everyone.

Naturally since the traditional Catholics became very small minority, there is a tendency for the ghetto spirit, and that is not necessarily evil, but have to be well balanced with our mission to everyone is the Earth, and the salvation comes not from us, either individually or as local community but from Jesus Christ.


(11-05-2009, 07:38 AM)petrelton Wrote: Why not both?  Read the Acts of the Apostles.  Community is important, especially in times like this.  Catholicism is a "we" religion.  It's individualism that's Protestant.

I live in Philadelphia and began attending an SSPX chapel, St. Jude's, in September.  I felt called to support the SSPX, but I was afraid of isolating myself.  What a surprise I had when I attended Mass on Sunday for the first time!  The parish hall was packed, PACKED, with people before and after Mass.  There was food; people were eating and socializing, rather than making a beeline for their cars.  People stay an hour, two hours, or more after Mass.  Fr. Bergez gives adult catechism classes in the parish hall every other week; during the other Sundays, he gives catechism classes to the teenagers of the parish.  This was a thriving COMMUNITY.  A CATHOLIC COMMUNITY.  And it is very, very, very good.

St. Athanasius in Vienna, VA is for all practical purposes an SSPX chapel, I hear.  Why don't you go and see, Damooster?  Your experience might be the same as mine.
It does sound good. Personally I would forgoe the food and socialising for a valid confession, but that's just me. Each to his own. Whatever works for you I guess.

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Re: Traditional organizations? - Historian - 11-05-2009

damooster, i don't know if you've experienced this yet, but sometimes i am so overwhelmed by the Mass, so intensely caught up with Christ's sacrifice, that i'm not interested in human contact for a few minutes, even half an hour or longer. 

joining groups within the parish is a good way to socialize with other Catholics and many such groups have Mass said just for them occasionally as well as having meetings and parties.

as for attending Mass said by priests who don't have the faculties to offer absolution, Catholics who attend SSPX, ICK, SSPV, or independent churches can confess to a diocesan priest and receive absolution.  there's no law that says you have to go to confession at the church where you go to Mass.




Re: Traditional organizations? - Oldavid - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 07:38 AM)petrelton Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 06:29 AM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 05:51 AM)glgas Wrote: As for 'community' my experience is that with the exception of the ethnic groups Catholics attend masses for the Mass, and not for the community. Most of the protestant churches are primarily to organize community, and they welcome outsiders too immediately. Their service is followed by intensive communication many times including the minister. We go to Church for the Mass.

Why not both?  Read the Acts of the Apostles.  Community is important, especially in times like this.  Catholicism is a "we" religion.  It's individualism that's Protestant.

I live in Philadelphia and began attending an SSPX chapel, St. Jude's, in September.  I felt called to support the SSPX, but I was afraid of isolating myself.  What a surprise I had when I attended Mass on Sunday for the first time!  The parish hall was packed, PACKED, with people before and after Mass.  There was food; people were eating and socializing, rather than making a beeline for their cars.  People stay an hour, two hours, or more after Mass.  Fr. Bergez gives adult catechism classes in the parish hall every other week; during the other Sundays, he gives catechism classes to the teenagers of the parish.  This was a thriving COMMUNITY.  A CATHOLIC COMMUNITY.  And it is very, very, very good.

St. Athanasius in Vienna, VA is for all practical purposes an SSPX chapel, I hear.  Why don't you go and see, Damooster?  Your experience might be the same as mine.
It does sound good. Personally I would forgoe the food and socialising for a valid confession, but that's just me. Each to his own. Whatever works for you I guess.
Are you still trying to convince these good folk that illicit equals invalid?
Pure nonsense!


Re: Traditional organizations? - WhollyRoaminCatholic - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 09:54 AM)Oldavid Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 07:38 AM)petrelton Wrote: It does sound good. Personally I would forgoe the food and socialising for a valid confession, but that's just me. Each to his own. Whatever works for you I guess.
Are you still trying to convince these good folk that illicit equals invalid?
Pure nonsense!

His point was about confession, which would be invalid without jurisdiction except in emergencies or with good-willed ignorance.


Re: Traditional organizations? - Oldavid - 11-05-2009

I really didn't say that!!
I didn't put in all those quotes... I don't even know how to.
But I did address Petrelton directly with the quote that ends with "pure nonsense"
However "pure nonsense" was Explained before it was proclaimed.
There's a gremlin in here somewhere.


Re: Traditional organizations? - WhollyRoaminCatholic - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 10:57 AM)Oldavid Wrote: I really didn't say that!!
I didn't put in all those quotes... I don't even know how to.
But I did address Petrelton directly with the quote that ends with "pure nonsense"
However "pure nonsense" was Explained before it was proclaimed.
There's a gremlin in here somewhere.

A gremlin?  Really?  Please.

If you want to reply to a particular post, you can click the "quote" button in the upper right hand corner of each post.


Re: Traditional organizations? - Oldavid - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 11:04 AM)WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 10:57 AM)Oldavid Wrote: I really didn't say that!!
I didn't put in all those quotes... I don't even know how to.
But I did address Petrelton directly with the quote that ends with "pure nonsense"
However "pure nonsense" was Explained before it was proclaimed.
There's a gremlin in here somewhere.

A gremlin?  Really?  Please.

If you want to reply to a particular post, you can click the "quote" button in the upper right hand corner of each post.
Good-oh been there and done that. It doesn't seem economical..I'd be repeating the whole blog in a couple of days.


Re: Traditional organizations? - WhollyRoaminCatholic - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 11:15 AM)Oldavid Wrote: Good-oh been there and done that. It doesn't seem economical..I'd be repeating the whole blog in a couple of days.

If you're careful with the delete key, you can cut out only the part you want to quote.

:tiphat:


Re: Traditional organizations? - rbjmartin - 11-05-2009

(11-05-2009, 06:25 AM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote:
(11-05-2009, 01:05 AM)nsper7 Wrote: Well, an "Independent" means they have rejected the authority of the Pope (most likely, said Independent is Sedevacantist) and I would just stay away from that mess. One would hope their Holy Orders are valid, but I don't know where you'd honestly look that hope.

St. Athanasius Chapel is most certainly not sedevacantist, and, as I said, the priest was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre.  The pastor preaches against sedevacantism.

He was not ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre.  He was ordained in the Novus Ordo, and then when he abandoned his bishop, he was conditionally ordained by one of the SSPX bishops (I believe it was Bishop Williamson), but the SSPX does not like to admit that they do this.